SAAB News: We will build Youngman Lotus in Trollhättan
The business news. Pang Qingnian, founder of Lotus Youngman, gave an interview to the local newspaper on Saturday, leaving plenty of room for misinterpretation and misinterpretation. Therefore, we should stay calm as we read these lines and wait. In it we are now world champion.
"We will build Lotus in Trollhättan while waiting for the new PhoeniX platformWas the key message of the weekend interview with TTELA. By this, Pang Quingnian probably (unfortunately) does not mean the cars Youngman imports into China. He means these products, which were designed with technical assistance from Lotus. Hmm.
At first glance, there are products that neither Sweden nor Europe are urgently waiting for. Emotionslos, any, a car from the People's Republic just. Of course, the question arises as to what the market opportunities for these products in Europe are. Developed with help from England, built in Sweden, an unknown brand. Youngman would definitely have a production base in the heart of the continent that is invading. If I were a member of a European car company, I would not like it.
Somehow I'm split on this. Youngman lifted the curtain a little. It's not just about Saab, it's also about a factory for a Chinese brand in Sweden. Everything that benefits the Trollhättan location, secures jobs and keeps local skills is good. Globalization is on its way and does not stop at our cult brand. But these cars from Saab Bänder - are my personal nightmare.
Anyway, we are not economics and so another question concerns us. What about the Saab 9-3 that Youngman wanted to hibernate with. No word, no hint in today's interview. That leaves two possibilities.
A: The Saab 9-3 comes, freed from GM DNA, and runs together with the Youngman Lotus types in the band's work. The factory in the Stallbacka is considered highly flexible, technically it would be possible. The Saab dealer network and customers overwinter for 24 to 36 months with the 9-3, then comes the successor.
B: The 9-3 does not come for licensing reasons. Maybe it's not that easy with GM DNA, maybe it's too expensive to convert the 9-3. Small quantities, short term. To keep competencies, the factory runs in the "Lotus Youngman mode”Until the 9-3 successor appears. The question is how the brand will last 24 months. What about the dealer network?
Saab's value also lies, above all, in the existing structures. A global dealer network that is still functional is considered an asset. The network could not survive a waiting period of 24 to 36 months. The managers at Youngman know that. GM is not considered “big obstacle”Said Youngman lawyer Johan Nylèn today. "When the transaction will be completed we do not know. But the bankruptcy trustees work fast and well".
We wait, as always. As I said, the interview could be misunderstood. There may be translation errors, as it was recorded at the Gothenburg train station shortly before the departure to Stockholm. Important details may not have been mentioned in the near future. And it could be that another party wins the contract.
Text: tom@saabblog.net
Since yesterday's TATA message went around the world, the discussion in the SAAB circles has picked up speed again. The light at the end of the tunnel became a floodlight. The mood was excellent. You could almost say my TATA was the investor everyone was waiting for.
And then this morning, no post on Saabblog.net.
Nightingale I'll trap you….
What we've learned: If it's not on Saablog.net, it's probably a duck ... and then this morning this message in the Wall Street Journal:
Last night Indian newspaper The Indian Express reported that Tata Motors of Indian had placed a $ 350 million bid on Saab. Now Tata denies the bid. “No, we have not done that,” said Chairman of the board of Tata Ratan Tata to the Wall Street Journal. Chairman Ratan Tata is currently at the Geneva Auto show where Wall Street Journal asked him about the alleged Tata bid. “But I know of another Indian company which has placed a bid: Mahindra,” Ratan Tata continued. According to Tata's head of information, Debasis Ray, Tata has not even been at Saab in Trollhättan snooping around. And they are not interested in additional brands. So it would seem that Indian newspaper The Indian Express has mixed up the two Indian companies when it reported about the bid on Saab.
OUCH!
hie,
TATA Motors would of course be a completely different house number. If that were the anonymous bidder from Europe (... via their daughters Jaguar, Land Rover ...), wow!
That would look pretty good together - Jaguar, Land Rover, Saab. Would also consistently fit the Anglophile orientation of the Indians, especially since Saab UK was always a little better / different. The alignment sounds authentic. If that's true, I'll be curious to see how Mahindra will react. Back then, they snapped Jaguar and Land Rover from under their noses. Now music really comes into play.
Greetings from Koblenz.
TT
hie,
it goes off. Focus-Online has also reported.
Greetings from koblenz.
TT
Comparisons with Dacia, Kia etc. are not effective. The wage level in Sweden is probably a bit different from Romania or the Asian region. In this respect, “cheap production” should not really be possible in Saabhausen. Also, the world should hardly wait for these Youngman Lotus products… .; Unfortunately, I now also fear that SAAB as a product is not necessarily the focus of this bidder's considerations.
Let's see if “our” Tom has not deliberately led us (with a beautiful four-pot blown drift tower photo, etc.) with FIRMA - X - on the black ice.
JLR are also three letters!
And southern Europe is, from Sweden's perspective, EVERYTHING possible.
Saab has already suffered from the “too large” plant in Trollhausen in the past. There was always talk of 100.000 - 120.000 cars a year in order to be profitable. These numbers were last achieved in 2006, but without the corresponding profit.
The “oversized” factory was certainly noted positively by GM in the Saab balance sheet ... The production of 9-3 Cab at Magna Steyr was always contradictory.
Anyway, I think every investor will have to find a way to make the most of the plant. I therefore assume that there will somehow be a common platform on which Saab and other vehicles will be built. Otherwise, I will not reach the capacity. In the medium term, 9 cars are realistic every year for a pure 3-50.000 II series.
Personally, I am hoping for the big, unknown bidder, who alone or as part of a joint venture (M&M) will provide a solid solution. Youngman - Lotus? I dont know…..
Why shouldn't Youngman-Lotus initially utilize the Trollhättan plant with its own proven models? The cars really don't look as bad as shown here - much more like current Mazda or mid-range Opel. It is also not said that these vehicles are to be sold exclusively through SAAB dealers - other dealers who would like to offer inexpensive cars in the lower middle class would also be interested here.
At Renault, for example, Dacia is doing very well - inexpensive KIA models or the cool Chevrolet offshoots are popular with the younger generation - so why not?
Please do not forget that Youngman-Lotus (if this company wins the contract) would somehow have to bring in enough money - this would hardly be possible with a 9-3 II series, for example. Mahindra would also have to bridge a certain period of time with other vehicle series - here, however, only the Korando off-road vehicle comes to mind as somewhat useful.
If, for whatever reason, the trio of administrators classify the other applicants in addition to Youngman-Lotus less favorably, we should get used to the production of Youngman-Lotus vehicles - should the Chinese family company steer towards the podium and then ultimately stumble due to exaggerated standards , you would u. U. will no longer be able to order new SAAB automobiles in the future.
DR
well -sooo sensitive you will not be the same.
Because of our animosity immediately insulted driving home.
Uh - and TATA also pays a little more!
... and what Norbert says about it, we don't know yet!
Apparently, Tata has also made an offer for Saab. At least that's what SaabsUnited says, citing this source:
http://m.indianexpress.com/news/tata-motors-bids-for-ailing-saab/920577/
I'm very sure after the post written here, that Youngman with our brand is up to no good!
With all the hope that is expressed here, it is already hard for me to pour water into the wine. But that can not work.
A mass product such as an “inexpensive” car requires efficient sales, but this sales does not exist. I think that the current SAAB dealers put such a model in the sales room is absolutely not realistic.
“Inexpensive” models also require a low wage level in production, which is also not available in Sweden. Thus, a price advantage in sales is not feasible. In the eyes of a logistics company, Sweden is not exactly centrally located in Europe, which does not necessarily have a positive effect on distribution costs.
Developing an automobile in England may impress somebody in China but is really no longer an argument in Europe. There are a lot of flops from the past. The idea of having these vehicles modified in Sweden binds to a staff (which is actually needed in the new 900er) and only undermines the SAAB brand.
The whole scenario can only make sense if the goal is to minimize losses. That means you bind the employees to yourself, whom you cannot do without for a SAAB future. So maybe one could somehow keep production up to a new SAAB, but sales would not survive this dry spell. The fact remains that SAAB can only survive with a SAAB - nothing works without the current 9-3.
Wasn't Trollhättan at the top of the GM internal comparison in terms of price and quality - compared to GM's European plants?
"We will build Youngman-Lotus in Trollhättan" ... sounds almost like a threat :-(
I thought exactly the same ...
Too bad that we, the SAAB fans and drivers can not democratically decide who would be our favorite after the release of the respective Trollhättan 10 annual plan and after elections by majority vote also our buyer ...
Anyway, the Chinese would not get a voice from me! My doubts about their sincerity are greater than ever.
Mahindra & Mahindra would get a tick with YES.
BMW plan I would have to read first ...
But as I said, nobody ever asks me, unfortunately.
So free after the saying: First, it comes differently, and second, as you think ... (Wilhelm Busch?)
Or freely based on Rudi Carrell “Let yourself be surprised ...”
SG
Dear SAAB friends
With all the wishes that SAAB will also exist in the future (with the "Spirit of SAAB"), I now often ask myself whether everything that can come now has something in common with the old spirit.
Change and development is necessary, but the special idea, which has made SAAB and us as SAAB spinners, should be preserved in a special way.
This spirit is described quite well in the booklet “The Spirit of SAAB - more than a car”, which is already out of print but is still available in used condition.
To mourn only the past is certainly the wrong way, but there should be something left of the special that can not be found in any other automobile.
Is this a sentimental, no longer contemporary wishful thinking, or is it still to be expected - no, even to be demanded from everyone who deals with "our company"?
What do you think.
Gallix
+1
I have already thought about that. Maybe it's wishful thinking, but on the other hand, who really wants to make something out of the name should try to understand the special.
Apart from the fact that these Youngman cars have a dreadful arbitrary design, I could imagine that these vehicles with English genes would have a chance in Europe after a Swedish cure by the Saabingeneure and then built in Trollhättan to Saab quality standard in competition with Fiat, Renault or Opel , Please do not do this with Saab emblem on the hood and do not build these things one to one like in China.
As much as I would be pleased if at least the line 9-3II would be produced again, so pessimistic I am at the same time. By contrast, the acquisition of the production facilities and Saab Parts could be quite lucrative for an investor.
With all hope and wishful thinking, it should always be kept in mind that the prospective investor will not be a selfless benefactor. You certainly want to earn money primarily, but you can do better if you do not get bogged down.
Minimum production figures (eg a new low-cost small car model, Dacia says hello !!!) are easier to achieve without Saab models and moreover, the investor would then not have to deal with warranty claims.
If that were the case then it would be a pity for me and certainly for many others too, but certainly no reason to renounce the beloved Saab.
As has often been written: "Where would SAAB be without the millions of YM?" And if the SAAB engineers still pimp the YM-Lotos models, then they might have a chance on the EU market !?
Otherwise, I also hope for SAAB / YM 9-3 models, so that the dealer network can be supplied with “new” cars and we may see SAAB again at a trade fair and show “new things” that the automotive world is impressive!
Otherwise, I hope that the SAAB dealers survive with their “second brands”… maybe they'll sell the YM lotus “pimped by Trolls” anyway!
We hope, we wait, we continue our SAAB!
It is most likely just about the additional capacity utilization of the factory in Trollhättan - Youngman-Lotus has made enough smart about the possibilities of continuing to manufacture the 9-3 II (in a slimmed down form) in the last few months and has communicated this.
It should be assumed that this would go on the supplement as planned on the stage.
I would have no objection to an additional “cheap track” with Youngman Lotus automobiles, which are then also manufactured in Trollhättan. Other manufacturers such as Renault, for example, have their “cheap rail” (Dacia). Perhaps with Lotus the sports car division is also meant - unfortunately everything was presented somewhat imprecisely to TTELA.
Mahindra + Mahindra could also ensure the capacity utilization of the factory with their own products - with the Ssangyong Korando you would probably even have the better cards.
If the Youngman cars are as horrible as they look in the photos, then I do not believe in Saab's success under Youngman. For those who seriously want to throw such derailments on the market, does not shy away from other derailments. Anyway, I'm afraid of something terrible.
The other manufacturers such as Volkswagen and Co. have also not released any design icons in the compact class - I would not describe the vehicles shown as derailments.
Since the vehicles were designed in England, one should also assume that a minimum level of occupant protection is available.
There are more and more people who want to buy cheap vehicles with low consumption - so a second track next to high-quality SAAB automobiles would be a thoroughly intelligent approach.
Let's hope that comes true when Youngman takes over the helm. I think that a twofold difficult image in public (Saab = bankruptcy, Youngman = cheap cars from China) will not be easy to correct.
If I understand correctly, SAAB has just no rights to the current SAAB models:
The 94 and 95 are in GM ownership, the current 93 is in BIAC-owned and should be replaced at the end of 2012 by a new 93. However, this new 93 will take some time to maturity. This means that there is a more or less short phase without SAAB models ready for series production. This time, the new SAAB owner has to fill up with products that bring money into the cash register and keep the employees in Sweden. Perhaps the new owner can agree with BIAC to extend the production time of the current 93 in Sweden, but this will not be negotiable in Sweden, but in China with BIAC.
But maybe I have overlooked something or is a mistake in my consideration.
It will be exciting.
It is arguable that BAIC owns the rights to the 93-II facelift. BAIC owns only the rights to the 93-II before facelift. BAIC is always trying to unsettle the public. One had already bought at ANA 93-II after facelift and umgelabelt on BAIC to reinforce their own statement.
Youngman said you can not construct a car. In this respect, the information is helpful because the current cars were developed in England. For the engineers in Trollhätten not a bad sign to wait a moment.
Since you also want to buy Saab Parts, we will continue to see Saab under Yougmann. This investment would not make sense otherwise.
So far a view of a (saabist) European. But Youngmann could have been on the finish line for little money on Saab with Victor Muller, one would not have fallen for the bankruptcy trustee, which was very unprofessional.
So a fear creeps around me; what if they just want to put on a Saab logo and want to play GM who do it so wonderfully as the largest manufacturer in the world ... or Fiat play that screw on Chrysler's Lancia logos ...
Who wants to enter the European market, which has goals. And there are moments when profitability is behind image. It is about the entry into globalization, about a European location (production and home base). Here, the foundations are laid for later profit and acceptance in the market.
With a GM IP-free Saab 93-II, Youngman would show that they can manage and represent something.
That's just the reality. As Tom writes, Youngman has lifted the curtain a bit. Even Chinese are not from Caritas. I just hope they build the SAAB 9-3 and a possible other product. After all, there is a hatchback umm or Sportback. 😉