Saab News. Gasoline engines from GM - facelift in spring.

The start of production at NEVS-Saab is within reach, and we are getting more and more details from the press. Auto-Motor Sport Sweden and NyTeknik report on the plans at Saab, and the more public becomes, the more questions emerge. First and foremost is the engine question, which seems to be only temporarily solved.

Twinpower Turbo of the new Mini Generation. In the future also at SAAB?
Twinpower Turbo of the new Mini Generation. In the future also at SAAB?

NEVS-Saab has built up a stock of GM direct injection petrol engines in recent months. Depending on the source, there are between 2.000 and 3.000 units in Sweden, originating from various countries of origin. These engines, which can be found in the 9-5 II and in the Saab 9-3 Griffin under the bonnet, also came to NEVS from Germany. With these machines, the first production models for China will be built, which will correspond to the Saab 9-3 Griffin series.

The long awaited facelift will take place in spring 2014, according to spokesman Mikael Östlund. Probably then, if the stock is blocked, so my assessment. Yes and then? The press sees several possibilities. There is the persistent rumor in Trollhättan that the old Saab engines will be used. It would be possible, because BAIC has already prepared the Saab B205 engine for installation in the Saab 9-3 and will start production on this basis in China.

The other option that would be more attractive for NEVS are modern BMW engines. Discussions have already taken place. The result is neither known to me nor to the Swedish press and whether negotiations are currently underway as well. And there would be the alternative to purchase diesel engines from VM Motori. GM has not been a co-owner since October, the shares were taken over entirely by Fiat. An option ... right now that blocker GM has dropped out.

Okay, let's talk briefly again about BMW and the possibilities! The 1.6 liter turbo engine from the Mini is meanwhile the snow of last winter at BMW. In the new generation, a 2.0 liter turbo is being launched, which no longer comes from the liaison with the French, but is a new generation from Munich. It won't just be found under the mini hood. The successor to the 1 series and the new BMW Active Tourer, all with front-wheel drive, will also have the new engine family. For the Saab 9-3, the engine, which produces 192 hp in the Mini, would be a good fit and would therefore have a modern, environmentally friendly drive. BMW would welcome an OEM deal, that's for sure.

How realistic is the assumption made by the Swedish press that has cropped up over the past few weeks? The sober question arises as to whether it makes sense to adapt a new engine to an “old” vehicle, or whether one doesn't go for a completely new development right away. Or on a really comprehensive evolution of the 9-3 basis, so that the result can be perceived as a new vehicle. Or, as a third variant, to build an intermediate version with the old Saab engines until the final product has the necessary maturity. Because that much is clear: NEVS-Saab cannot afford two things. On the one hand, to stop production after 3.000 vehicles for lack of an engine and, on the other hand, to bring a product to the European market that would disappoint.

Perplexed, confused? Probably ... so let's go ahead again. Because another scenario is also not impossible. NEVS-Saab certified the 9-3 with GM direct injection in the Netherlands last week according to Euro 5B +. In theory, this would make sales in Europe possible. Only the GM supply contract is missing. Or - in other words - why do you drive the certification process, which is not entirely inexpensive, if (supposedly) you only have 3.000 engines for China?

Questions upon questions! Only NEVS-Saab knows the answers! We should at least assume so. Because press spokesman Östlund said this to NYTeknik: "Vi har finansiering tills vi når break even“…” We have enough capital to reach the break-even point ”. That sounds like a comprehensive plan and - honestly - a lot of money ...

Text: tom@saabblog.net

Picture: BMW

 

39 thoughts on "Saab News. Gasoline engines from GM - facelift in spring."

  • I do not feel like making the blog a political platform. The comment function will therefore be blocked for this article and in the future corresponding comments will be deleted by the team.

  • The Nazi club was already unpacked in the so-called Third Reich! Today it is about the behavior of the families involved at the time - no more and no less.

    Of course, playing Vogel Strauss is also a possibility, dear Heiko.

    Quandt is now clearly associated with BMW and should not get even here in the blog free advertising. Vogel Strauss pukes me and other observers quite properly and the remaining small remainder of the former forced laborers under Quandt (without ever having received compensation for this great BMW dynasty) determines even more!

  • Yes, with all understanding, but we have a car blog here, it's about Saab, not politics or a sensitive past. Keep it outside please, here is clearly not the right place. There are corresponding forums and pages.

  • Oh God. Is not it true right? Is now here, the Nazi club unpacked. Somebody did something sometime. Such a do-gooder-like pisses me off. Nobody forces you to buy a BMW or a car with BMW engine.

  • I too did not know this clearness yet.
    Maybe now I understand my always existing aversion to BMW.
    INCREDIBLE !!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • At BMW, it has always been a tradition to sell car engines to other automobile manufacturers - that's why they call themselves BMW = Bayerische Motoren Werke.

    However, since I do not like the tradition of the Quandt family (then a BMW buyer and now owned by large parts of BMW), even less than GM's business practices, I would rather ignore a SAAB with a BMW engine.

    If the career of Quandt / BMW is not known, you should take a look at the award-winning film “Das Schweigen der Quandt's” - which shows their involvement in National Socialism and the strange behavior of the entire Quandt family when confronted with them Processes get presented in the best way.

  • “BMW engines in the Saab? Not possible for reasons of tradition. "

    Oktoberfest? Midsummer? Christmas? Whose tradition and which?

    The Saab, with a few exceptions, always bought all sorts of engines, modified and installed or to deliver the BMW, own engines to various in-house and foreign brands, can not be meant.

  • Yes, we are surprised who will deliver engines. Maybe it's mercedes because they have now joined BAIC. I would not mind the old 900 engines that were robust and durable for the beginning.

  • I see that not only as a problem, but as a killer argument in the truest sense of the word. Who else buys an upscale mid-range sedan that only 5 has to offer? Even VW Golf and Skoda Fabia offer more.

    I really do not like anything about my SAAB, but the missing 6. Gang is really no longer be described as a lovable slap or Swedish stubbornness, but just an obsolete technique. Which entails that the 5. Gear was made so long that you should accelerate, if you want to call it as such, under 80, 90 km / h better back down a gear.

  • The GM engines in question have been largely developed by SAAB and are very good and robust engines. I would welcome a use in the NEVS 9-3!

  • Would be very nice if NEVS-SAAB would be so financially strong that really something can be moved!
    If there is still a real concept behind it, real pressure is put in and the desired success occurs - WOW, that's it!

    Spinning further: NEVS is really successful, innovative drives, great design, good quality - many angry GM customers turn to SAAB. GM is doing worse and worse, because primarily large sledges with V8s are still being built.
    And once again GM complains about the sales figures of Opel.

    Then NEVS SAAB could still buy Opel (the current models look quite nice!) And you would finally have rescued Opel and could operate worldwide with 2 known brands. And the Potenmtial by the development departments would be huge!
    SABA as a premium brand, Opel as a slightly cheaper everyday variant.

  • First wait and see how the trial ends, there could be a decision this week. BMW still gets money from Saab, more precisely Saab Parts or now Oreo. Last year it was 2,6 million euros, interest should have been added by now. Before BMW's old claims are paid, no new contracts will be signed in Munich. I think the version with old GM / BAIC engines is more realistic in the short term. As an entry-level version, the old 2.0l with 160 PS from the last Griffin version would not be the worst configuration ...

  • If you get out of a small engine small power (so to the 60 PS) Rausholt and this engine in the small car will be distracted the normal driving style also ne hold.

    But if I get out of the same engine over 100 PS and build in a heavy car (like the SAAB 9-5) and dan maybe even nen cylinder can take away and the engine will not last long in my opinion.

    I have nothing against small engines when they are in small cars.
    There belong.

  • A little addendum - to think about:

    When did downsizing even start? In my eyes this is a word and a “phenomenon” of the modern age, but it was there before. Suddenly it was possible to achieve 3.0hp with a 220l engine, so the 3.5l engine could be replaced, and even later the performance could be achieved with a 2.5l engine. In principle, downsizing, too, but not bad, right?

    Anyway, you should still draw a line somewhere, we're all of the same opinion - I would personally only want to drive a 1.5 with 220ps to a limited extent.

  • As I wrote earlier, the 150tkm related to 10 years at 15tkm / year.

    I can understand the general skepticism about small, supercharged engines. I'm also pretty sure that only exceptions of the 1.2 TSI or 1.4 TSI or the 1.5 turbo from BMW - but also the 180hp 1.6T in the Saab 9-5 II or Insignia / Astra - will reach the 290tkm.

    However, as a not yet Saab driver, I have had in-depth experience with downsizing engines - since 2010 and 85tkm with one of the smallest engines in an approx. 1300kg vehicle. And I have put aside my skepticism, even if I have had enough experience against a downsizing engine (consumption when driving on the motorway far from the NEDC values).

    And I assert quite cheeky that I could bring the engine with me to over 200tkm without damage occur. =)

  • The 150tkm related to the mileage of our old vehicles - all of them petrol. To explain, my father always drove 15tkm / year, which means that the car was a good 10 years old. And after 10 years, a vehicle is obsolete for me - of course everyone has different views here.
    If I drive more, a diesel has to be produced and I actually expect it to last at least 300tkm without any problems - even if more than 500tkm were achieved in the past. =)

  • @ Mister_Schue

    We drive a SAAB 9-3 2.0t built in 2000 (150 PS) which has run 290.000 KM without problems until today.
    I expect a car to run at least 200.000 KM without problems and I just don't believe that this is possible with a 1.2-1.5 liter engine in a car like the SAAB 9-3 or the 5-series BMW.

    Such shot glass engines can be put into micro cars like the Smart or the VW UP but not in a limousine or a big van.

    I will never get used to this downsizing.

  • BMW engines in the Saab? Is not for tradition reasons.

  • Small addendum: I expect much more than 150TKM of my car and that is possible, has proven the past.

  • @Mister_Schue

    Based on the liter performance of the comparison is correct. But firstly, the new cars are so heavy that they would like to be more than 150PS in order to be able to overtake on the highway without having to worry about speed orgies. Second, the 205er block is still a gray cast iron and thus much more stable than modern aluminum throw-off engines.

  • Wait. This is certainly only when it is announced in Trollhättan.

  • "[...] they should actually be treated like raw eggs, but which driver thinks about it ??? [...]"

    I =)

    And I hope that my 1.2er TSI holds in the Seat Leon even more 65tkm, so I can deliver it after 5-5,5 years with 150tkm. More I do not necessarily expect from a gasoline engine, if he then creates more of course, that's a nice addition.

    In principle, I agree with you. Downsizing does not always have to be done by the devil and we will probably seldom see petrol engines - and also less and less diesel - that crack the 200tkm (300tkm diesel) mark.
    But where is the Unterschieb, if I get out of an 1.5er 150ps (let's stay with the mini / BMW engines) or from an 2.3er 250 / 260ps? If one closes purely on the liter performance on the load of the engine, then the 2.3er is even worse dar.

  • VM Motori is certainly a possible and good choice as far as the diesel engines are concerned. These are already installed in the Fiat / Chryslter Group. Why are not Fiat engines really up for debate? The diesel as well as petrol engines are today on eye level with the German manufacturers, with further potential. These engines were well suited from SAAB.

  • That could not only be a problem, but that would definitely be a problem, today 6 gears in manual and 7 or 8 gears in automatic transmission are standard. With a 5-speed gearbox you have already lost the quartet comparison and again only get negative comments, such as the idea “NEVS is building the 2002 Saab 9-3”.

  • It all sounds like a good plan. Nevertheless, it is a little frustrating that everything that prevented the sale from 2010-2011 is now possible, namely the further installation of GM parts despite a Chinese Saab owner ……….

  • Okay, if you can bend the B205 to the appropriate emission standard, then you would only need the right gear.

    And I am also somewhat performance-oriented, which is why I would like to have a 200-250ps diesel with automatic and four-wheel drive, but now and then synonymous to reason

  • Thanks GP362

    Finally one of the Downssizerrei Realistically sees.
    The cars in the future no more 100.000 without engine damage to it, the common everyday car driver will probably have to get used.

  • Very right, once sat behind the V6 you can forget everything under it

  • A SAAB with GM engine does not come into my house! I'm also a fan of the 205 and the transmission issue should be solvable. Whereby the engines are so elastic that I leave out one of the five gears when shifting. Six gears are annoying and are only good for marketing.
    The “downsizing nonsense” really does not have to be repeated here, it is not for nothing that BMW is replacing the 1.6L in the Mini with the 2.0L and the 1.4L TFSI from VW rarely reach the 100TKM without engine damage at only 140-160 PS.
    Downsizing means only that you replace missing displacement by high boost pressure. These minimotörchen have very high ignition pressures and thermal loads. they would actually have to be treated like raw eggs, but which driver is already thinking about that?
    For the leasing industry, 205er engines with gigantic mileages are naturally of little interest.

  • So the GM Resterampe. I was hoping it's just a PR duck. This throws a bitter aftertaste on the restart. Not very long term thought. With the BMW engines does not sound bad but the press and potential buyers only see what happens now. And even my personal comment, something clearly above 200 PS should come. Am there something spoiled V6.

  • Oh, I've completely forgotten that the B205 “only” hangs on a 5-speed gearbox.
    I understand that for some could be a problem.

    Personally, it's a bit of a joke if there are 4, 5 or 6 gears.
    My current car (SAAB 900 GL) had only 4 gears, for example.
    You arrive anyway and you save in comparison to a 6 gearbox even two shifts

  • In a Saab again GM, my new option is called Volvo or Jaguar.

  • Unfortunately, the B205 depends on the 5 gear Saab transmission, manual or automatic. That could be a problem.

  • That would be great if the B205 really Euro 6 would be capable.
    Then you could take that.
    The durable is well known and especially drinking does not.

    I did not even think about the BMW three-cylinder.
    Hopefully we will be spared in the SAAB.
    I can not start with the downsizing nonsense.

    BMW four-cylinder Yes, the three-cylinder can keep se.

  • The use of the mini motors would then (presumably) include the entire family, not only the 2.0 but also the 3 cylinder. I am just a bit performance oriented :-). With the B205 engines Euro 5 should be easily possible, allegedly also Euro 6.

  • I don't quite understand why only the 2.0 with 192ps is seen in the 9-3. BMW installed the 2014 1.5-cylinder with 3hp in the Mini from 134, and the same engine in the new 5er comes as both gasoline and diesel with 150hp, in the 1er (from 2014) - current test engine makes 177 ( http://www.bimmertoday.de/2012/09/13/bmw-dreizylinder-turbo-fahrbericht-test-fahrt-sound-video/ ). And up to 220ps should also be possible with the engine (the i8 has 231ps).
    There is also the following fact. I read some time ago that car buyers in China (or Asia) are mainly interested in engines up to 150hp and do not value “sportiness” as much as most (especially young) people in Europe do. In the Far East, it is well known that size and space are more important.
    What use is NEVS in such a situation so a 2.0l 192ps engine, if the interest can be satisfied with a 1.5er 150ps engine for less money?
    Another thought occurred to me. Perhaps the postponement of the facelift to 2014 is due to the choice of the 1.5. BMW cannot currently deliver these engines and therefore NEVS is initially bringing the 9-3 with the “old” engines. I mean, what difference would it make for NEVS whether the engines are now installed or simply thrown away - provided the new engines are already available?

    And what is better for an eco-friendly company? A powerful 192ps engine that likes to take a good gulp of gas, or a sufficiently powerful, small and economical engine?

    As far as the VM Motori diesel engines are concerned, I do not really know why NEVS should choose two separate suppliers. For one, VM Motori can only supply one 2.0l 163ps and one 1.5l 110ps diesel engine, since I hardly believe that an 2.5-3.0 (both 4 and 6 cylinders) should be installed in the Saab 9-3. Although the 2.0l engine seems to be rather economical (4,8l diesel in the Chevrolet Cruze Stationwagon), I can well imagine that it is more uneconomic to oblige separate suppliers of gasoline and diesel instead of just one (BMW).

    As for the GM engines. Of course there is the capitalist law that you can negotiate with a company that did some shit - good to see at Samsung and Apple. However, I think GM is arguably the worst option on the engine issue.
    No wonder the 2.0 Diesel with 160ps seems to be very fuel efficient, but with the gasoline engines I do not quite see that.
    And just because NEVS did the certification, I would not immediately conclude. Because if NEVS also wants to supply Sweden with the new Saabs at the same time, then forcibly must have a European certification.

    On the topic of old Saab engines. I'm not a motor expert, so I'll just ask. Is it even so easy to further develop the engines that they can create the Euro-5 or even Euro-6 standard?

    As I said, I could very well imagine the new 1.5er, because NEVS gets both engine types from one supplier, probably saving money compared to 2 suppliers and even expanding to a hybrid model. Sufficient are the engines all times. In addition a good 8 step automatic. I would not know anything that would speak against it in the Asian and European market (except in Germany).

  • So in the short term it might not be so stupid to retrieve the B205 from the leftover box.
    In the long term, I think the BMW Motoran is the best solution.

    The engines of Gangster Motors are certainly not bad but it would be a big punch in the neck of us SAAB drivers and fans if GM would come back again.
    Mal first time, the SAAB Almost the bottom and hardly stands SAAB again halfway on the legs, the bloodsuckers come back and sucking just where they left off ??

    That can not be!!!!

    So it remains exciting.

  • It remains exciting, GM motors are not so bad, I drive every day with an Australian copy of the area and it is a lot of fun. But after all that has been going on for the last couple of years, it would be a sheer mockery if these saboteurs from the US would earn even a penny on or with Saab. I recently bought some original new Saab windshield wipers from Saab. What can I say, it stinks me tremendously when I jump out of the corner of my eye from the side of fat and fat the GM sign. At the first grease comes again something of the good old Mr. Bosch turn.

  • Which sales figures does the NEVS plan again provide? 3000 units are not much, that should be what SAAB last sold in the month. I would not initiate a certification process for a monthly production of cars. And to be honest, I wouldn't plan with them either. As I said - this number will be used up in no time.

    Wishful thinking or not, I think the BMW solution is the most attractive and sensible. The technology is reliable, they have a big name as a supplier, further cooperation in the future is not ruled out. The old B205 is undoubtedly solid and proven, but it is no longer the youngest, for the foreseeable future one would have to develop anew, if only to avoid the PR disaster “old engine in the new SAAB”, which the engine press will then probably immediately would initiate again.

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