The scandal

Friday afternoon ... the weekend is just around the corner. The latest news on the VW environmental scandal is on the radio. The traffic light on the construction site is red, oncoming traffic is rolling past the Saab. 7 out of 10 vehicles are SUVs. Blogger out and about in Kathmandu?

Volkswagen and the environmental scandal. Picture: Volkswagen.
Volkswagen and the environmental scandal. Picture: Volkswagen.

No! The place of the action is a small Franconian village. Well-developed streets shape the townscape. The off-road vehicles are not on their way to the base camp; the biggest immediate challenge is overcoming the curb. And yes, there is this VW environmental scandal that is shaking the group due to the modular monoculture. As a German autoblog, you cannot ignore it. The roots of the scandal are deep. They are the result of 20 years, always bigger, ever stronger, ever harder. This is not an article about mistakes and omissions at VW. You can read enough about that elsewhere. It's about the species behind the wheel ...

Let's think back two decades! Upper middle class vehicles weighed 1.300 to 1.400 kilograms. 20 years later it is 2 tons. For a long time, off-road vehicles with the drag coefficient of a barn door were only moved by farmers and foresters. Today the streets are dominated by these vehicles, whose greatest challenge in automotive life is climbing the underground car park exit. Something goes wrong when more and more automobiles are used per person. Mass equals consumption, equals exhaust gas. A simple formula, physics cannot be tricked.

The view back: Bloggers back mirror
The view back: Bloggers back mirror

We all knew that something could not be right! If there is around 50% more consumption on the bill at the pump than in the manufacturer's data sheet, then alarm bells should ring. Actually ... But we, the buyers, didn't want to look. We accepted in silence; the subject of cars is very special in Germany because we invented it. The issue of consumption, and the associated quiet criticism, is at most at the regulars table, otherwise not. Because we want to believe what cannot be. Chasing the heavy diesel over the left lane at over 200 km / h, and environmentally friendly too? Puff cake! Bigger, stronger, heavier. All of this takes its toll. At the expense of the environment, future generations, our health.

One solution, as we read from countless comments on the environmental scandal these days, could be the electric car. Tesla is knocked around the ears of Wolfsburg as an innovative example. Seriously ! What is innovative at Tesla? To screw more than 8.000 notebook batteries under a car so that the 2.1 ton box can accelerate up to 4 human bodies through the Frankfurt rush hour traffic? 2.1 tons! The most innovative thing is the courage to do something like this. Tesla's next mischief is going to be an electric SUV. An overweight battery block with wing doors ...

Climate effects of vehicle manufacturing. Source: Environmental Balance Electric Mobility
Climate effects of vehicle manufacturing. Source: Environmental Balance Electric Mobility

It is forgotten in the heat of discussion that the production of an electric car puts a higher burden on the environment than the production of a conventional car. The general solution of the problem could be simple. The magic word: weight reduction.

Do we really need more than 2 tons of curb weight to be on the move with an automobile? There were smartly made cars in the 80s and 90s, and not just at Saab. But Saab 900 and 9000 are examples of this. Small turbo engines that deliver a lot of power on demand. Smart room concepts with a tailgate. They offered space for 5 people, a medium-sized move or the shopping of a large family. And yes, you could drive these cars on dirt roads. So without all-wheel drive and off-road vehicle mimicry. No, everything wasn't better in the past. But maybe smarter.

Things keep evolving. Techniques that save lives take their toll. They add more weight to our cars. Nobody should do without them in the future either. If human life can be protected, there must be no compromise.

But maybe the VW scandal could change something on both sides. Manufacturers could see the crisis as an opportunity. You might have the courage to build lighter, smarter cars. The materials for it exist, German manufacturers could show the world that there is more to our country than automobile dinosaurs. The Audi A2 was a beautiful, intelligent example of lightweight construction. Ahead of its time, a flop. But asked today.

The buyer himself should finally come of age. Use his intelligence to adapt the selection criteria of the next car smart to the needs and the responsibility for the environment. This also means that one may refuse. Not every trend makes sense. And not every mischief deserves the predicate innovation. Latest questionable innovation: Electric tailgates and trunk lid. Extra weight, a feature for a people with rampant muscle wasting.

Meanwhile, the Saab is in the supermarket parking lot. I invite the purchases for the weekend. Busy buzzing and clicking around me. Electric tailgates open and close in almost all of the new cars of the higher class. Comfort feature is called that. More weight, more CO2 and nitrogen oxides distributed over the car life. Rethinking has not started yet.

78 thoughts on "The scandal"

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    To the mentioned FFV (Biopower of SAAB) should be noted that the 31.12. It will end with E85. E85 loses to the 31.12. the tax credit and it does not look like an extension.
    The first gas stations (Classic) are already taking ethanol out of their tanks. How should petrol stations in the future, after the biodiesel and E85 debacle, declare that they should offer hydrogen or something else?

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    Successful lobbying can be seen here! Self-catering are not wanted! There was lying down a stream of electricity giants, against remaining water mills. They should also prevent water mills from gaining electricity. It is significant, in the car sector, ideas are hoarded in drawers. Which are detrimental to the ordinary flow of things. Stay there until the last day ... of the oil ?!
    Example: "Tropical island" is the fruit of such a decline! The great idea of ​​heavy haulage with the Zeppelin, which lobbies are behind it? Who used it?

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      Right Peter I forgot that. Wind and water mill operators in D were told to feed in the electricity instead of consuming it themselves.

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    Dear Tom, Your article is really good, and on the subject of e-cars, the question of why electricity consumption is never planned, how electricity is produced, France builds new nuclear power plants, we continue to operate coal-fired power stations that pollute the environment.
    How many percent of Germans can produce their own electricity on a permanent basis? How does the energy balance look then? The advocates of the E-car are mostly part of the group of people who say the electricity is coming from the wall outlet, and this is still going on
    Nuclear power or electricity from burning fossil fuels. It may be different in California
    So have more sun and other (not restrictive) building codes

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      Sorry but that's nonsense. We Germans deliver green electricity to F and other EU countries in the event of overcapacity. Many private individuals would build their own solar system for their own electricity supply. Only that is prevented by the legislature here in D, among other things through building regulations and above all the EEG, which forces every solar system operator to feed in the solar power, let alone the insurance obligation with regard to fire, VDE etc ....

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        Successful lobby work can be seen here! Self-sufficiency is not wanted! There was an action by the power giants against the remaining water mills, which should also prevent the electricity from being generated. It is telling that ideas in the auto sector will disappear into drawers that are detrimental to the usual flow of things. Stay there to the last day ... of petroleum ?!
        “Tropical island” is the result of the decline of a great idea of ​​heavy haulage transport with the zeppelin, which lobbyists are behind it? Who did it benefit?

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    The automakers are on the wrong track! The customer and his wishes are no longer the focus. How do I come to claim something like that? I was a sales manager in a car dealership, a branded car dealership. I've been in sales for decades and know different industries.

    Car manufacturers are very conservative and only follow time streams years later, here either “the fast eat the slow” or “the biggest never give up” applies

    Where the latter are supported by taxpayer money, oh right? Of course, not quite properly formulated, so the big ones (GM, VW, etc.) can always get public money with the location and workplace thumbscrew.
    The “big ones” are in the “lobby”, well represented by it, being bent to conform to the law. So you can still keep old hats and rule out a risk as far as possible.
    The boards are the same through a comparable education, on the usual elite universities.
    Thus know no margin over which you would have to look. Satisfied and satisfied?
    Innovation often / always comes through the destruction of old structures.

    Winterkorn had the age for retirement, was a thorn in the side of the patriarch and was put on ice with tactical skill. A problem that had been known for some time, looked to it and did not fail. VW will stand it by / survive, the side effect, the stock is cheap like no longer!
    How else can you increase your influence in such a large company as buying stocks? Family Piech buys now, not open, covered?

    Now we've lost sight of the customer again!
    What does he want? Avarice is cool! The magic is clean! Alternative drives are the prevailing love! Time out for new cars, time in for old ones - youngtimers and oldtimers are on top of things. Young and old have long been sifting through, buying, driving, or even keeping their everyday classics.

    “Retro” is chic! But “Vintage” it`s better than the other! To suspect a bubble in the classic car scene is perhaps not entirely correct?
    Saab, Volvo, are very much in demand in end-of-life vehicles, and sustainability is hardly possible either.
    Germany's citizens are green, yes, even Europe is. Japan and China will and Germany could lose its lead in green thinking - thus also a market opportunity for automobiles, trucks, ships, solar technology, heating systems, armaments, agricultural machinery, and much more.

    At the age of 19 I drove a Renault R5 GTL with 45HP that had a 1000ccm petrol engine, 5-speed gearbox, its consumption 4,5liter / 100km. This was given by Renault as an ideal value and it could be done! This car weighed 550kg empty. For me an improvement to my first car a VW Beetle 1302 with 44PS and 15 liters / 10km this was also 10 years older. If you see the concept of these vehicles you have to say what has VW developed. Renault certainly had the “Cremeschnittchen” (4CV), but when did it end?

    So here at your request, Tom
    A small part of my hints, my "answer"

    The rest when I am in a position and this is allowed to implement for whom? I am waiting for offers, a secretary is urgently needed. I am not the writer, speak better

    Greeting Peter

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      Well, Peter, I don't have a secretary for you. But the trend is clear. Classic & youngtimers are a stable market trend. And it goes further. In the past, only the Jaguar classic was brought up to date for the customer lawyer, but today it can also be a Citroen CX. Restored and with many improvements it is the alternative to a new car. The development is exciting, there is still room for improvement.
      Saab is doing well. One can read here how many fans with enthusiasm daily in the 9000, 900 or 9-3 I rise.

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        (SAAB / Volvo) Old / Youngtimer rental and leasing would be something too ...
        Seems to work with Mercedes youngtimers in Hamburg…. then why not also with character cars from Scandinavia

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    or to have a better overview in traffic. But what if EVERYONE drives an SUV ... is it built even bigger?
    Big cars = expensive in purchase, maintenance = a lot of VAT and gasoline = good for everyone

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    um, is not the topic missed? The scandal is about the emission of nitrogen oxides, which in real operation is several times that of the test situation. It is _not_ about fuel consumption.

    The point is that with the AddBlue models VW would save a larger urea tank, or save customers frequent refills. Or with the soot filter models that the cleaning failed because it would have cost a bit more fuel or power.

    Has nothing to do with SUVs, even if the things are of course the scabies.

    As far as lightweight construction is concerned, I agree in principle. As an occasional trailer driver, however, I'm looking forward to mass in the towing vehicle, and I really do not want to be forced to buy an SUV just to be able to safely drive a trailer.

    Incidentally, there are a million horses in Germany, and horse owners like to drive SUVs, for the reasons above. So it's not just the curb that could have moved some Franconian townspeople to SUV purchase, but the rum schlepping of horses.

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      I'll help you again / quote text:

      “This is not an article about errors and omissions at VW. You can read enough about it elsewhere. It's about the species behind the wheel ... ”

      Got that?

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    I think that the small vehicles in the Polo and Golf class consume too much in relation to the large SUV or luxury class vehicles. I also do not think that our cars generally represent the environmental problem. There are other things. As 4. largest economy in the world, a share of 2,23% in co2 emissions can be seen, or else asked, what should we be able to do to significantly reduce global warming ?! Disclaimer is not a solution because nobody participates.

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    Always this funding discussion! Tesla is single-handedly creating a worldwide charging infrastructure, while BMW VW and everyone else are waiting whiningly for Papa Staat. The Model S makes very good money, but it is reinvested and not distributed to “greedy” shareholders. Model 3 is coming. For sure! And the factory has a capacity for 500 vehicles a year, and there has recently been a production facility in Europe. Tesla's losses in the 000st quarter of 1 were approx. $ 2015 million. That is approx. 150% of the VW provision for the fraud (2 billion!) VW would have had the billions that they now have to pay better in innovation than in Fraud invested.

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      When the factory had owned GM and Toyota, they had made a maximum of 500'000 vehicles a year. The factory is now completely rebuilt. 55'000 Tesla S was planned each year, the numbers were revised downwards. I suspect it's the bitchy universal manufacturing robot. The capacity limit of this one factory is not yet known, but it is already possible that it will then once again lie with 500'000 vehicles.

      But the subject is yes, why ever bigger and heavier vehicles are sold with more and more electric auxiliary motors. I suspect that advertising works and is advertised for vehicles where the margins are better. In addition, with any obscure energy efficiency labels calms the conscience. There are no labels for good emissions (except for the glossy CO2 specifications).

      Of course, the noise regulations also contribute to the fact that tricks are used in the engine controls and the vehicles get ridiculously many courses. For the noise measurement, the vehicles should accelerate inelasticly leisurely, but for the brochure details it needs a certain sportiness.

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        Don't confuse sales numbers with production numbers. They wanted to sell 55 vehicles this year!

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          From the 3rd quarter of 2012 to the 4th quarter of 2014, 56 vehicles were sold.
          In the 1st and 2nd quarter of 2015, 21 vehicles were sold.

          In order to sell vehicles, they must first be manufactured. I don't want to commit myself now whether the production or sales figures have been revised downwards. The fact is that the universal production robot is beating and that hardly 55 vehicles will be sold this year.

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    Mr. Musk ALSO said that it is gigafactory nr 1. That means more will follow. And: almost 80% of the machines at Tesla come from Germany ...

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    Modern vehicles are just computers on wheels. The feel of the products from Skand's is almost the same everywhere, synthetic somehow.
    My saws have their age, but just character. A reason to stay

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    Exactly these considerations I have also made myself. I've been riding Saab for a good 20 years (9000, 9-5 SC, 9-3 convertible, 9-3 II TTID, 9-3 X) and actually wanted an 9-5 NG, but sadly that was not possible anymore , I then had an A4 2.7 TDI for a while and then looked around for a second-hand 9-5 NG, but did not find one with the desired features.
    Due to the (from my point of view) completely failed NEVS concept, I then made some fundamental thoughts: Why should I, since I'm mostly alone / in pairs in the car, a 1.7 to acquire more than 2 T heavy box with completely exaggerated Consumption?
    I decided on a S (uzuki), 1140 kg, 136 PS and I am absolutely satisfied with it. Everything, almost everything in it, consumption about 6.5 liter super.
    I have to say, however, that I live in Switzerland and therefore rarely in D with 200 km / h on the highway and my wife still beat my stolen 9-3 II TTID with 240000 km and I like to change again and again , The Saab gene is just not to drive out

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    Basically you have (as far as cars with internal combustion engines) right that high weight increases consumption (with the articles on the NG 9-5 or 9-4x I can not remember that this was so much criticized or thematized).

    In my opinion, your excursions into electromobility are unfortunately (again) poorly researched. On the one hand, there is the lack of innovation at Tesla: the Model S does not have a battery made up of “more than 8000” notebook batteries. Even if the same form factor (18650) is used as in some laptops or pedelec batteries, that does not mean that they are the same batteries (chemistry, structure of the cell, etc.). Even the number “more than 8000” is incorrect. If you compare the battery pack of, for example, an e-Golf or Nissan Leaf with that of a Model S, you will find out that the energy density of the Model S is significantly higher, i.e. the battery is significantly lighter than that of today's competitors (per kWh). The weight of a Model S is not much higher than that of the fossil-fueled competitors (CLS, A7, Panamera etc.).

    In addition, the weight in the electric vehicle is far less in consumption than in a gasoline or Dieselverpenner, since it is known that in an electric car, a part of the energy can be recovered during braking. So unfortunately everything is written over the topic.

    Perhaps one more note: Compared to a Saab 9000 Aero, a Model S can in practice be operated with about 1 / 3 to 1 / 4 energy (conversion of the energy content of gasoline into electrical energy), despite the higher weight and the whole other performance data.

    To compare the energy needed for production: here it makes sense in my mind to consider the energy / CO2 load on the car life, from TÜV there are these analyzes, for example, for the Mercedes B-Class or the Kia Soul (both there are both fossil and electric Drive). In both, the electric version cuts, even when adopting a European. Electricity mix better (apart from the lack of local emissions and the lower noise).

    BTW: It's a pity that NEVS did not manage to finish a competitive electric car in good time. In this niche they would have had a chance to sell cars.

    On the actual scandalous issue of the software at VW / Audi / Skoda / ... engine management: That cars recognize when they are being operated on the test bench and adapt the program accordingly has really been known for decades, the only thing that amazes me is how many people do about it today are amazed.

    Greeting
    Thilo

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      Well, I just use the form factor of the batteries as a guide. The weight is too high in my eyes, I miss the bodywork concept that boldly points to the future. Even if the Tesla has a large tailgate, it remains far below the possibilities that would have been available. Because Tesla started with a blank sheet of paper ...
      In addition, one should not completely lose sight of the environmental balance of battery production. And no - I have nothing against Tesla. But on the contrary.

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        So you would like an electric car with a long range, which is much lighter than a comparable burner? It's not that easy today, but as I said, the weight is not really a problem.

        However, buyers do not want an electric car to look completely different and futuristic, which is why the e-Golf sells relatively well, for example. For example, in the largest European electric car market in Norway, e-Golf (7306), Model S (3116) and Nissan Leaf (2372) are well ahead of an i3 (1103), which stands out the most from a conventional vehicle (01-08 / 2015).

        I don't understand what is really missing from the Model S, which sports sedan has as much space, a huge and variable trunk and also extra storage space in the Frunk? In addition, optionally two child seats facing the direction of travel, which can be completely lowered into the trunk floor when they are not needed? And now don't come to me with just any SUV, we're talking about a sports sedan that, even in the non-performance version, accelerates to 5 km / h in less than 100 seconds (S85D) - without any riot or even the use of a launch control; ).

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          I find it all very entertaining and send the same time anticipate that I think E Mobile for the biggest nonsense that there are on two, three and four wheels.
          From my point of view, the internal combustion engine is far from over !!
          In my opinion, the car industry crashes only so much on the E Mobile because they have nothing more great to develop. All they had to do was go to their desks and dig out an old-fashioned concept (E car) from the bottom drawer, dusting it off and putting it into a modern body.

          And all the world is happy about a whole new concept that exists in its fundamentals since 100 years 🙂
          Honestly I find it on the one hand to the death laughter that leaves the modern consumer so easy to dazzle. On the other hand, I find it very sad that the car industry makes it so easy and does not really put an affordable environment-friendly concept on the wheels.
          The basis would be with ethanol, LPG and hydrogen in combination with hybrid drive (without plug-in function!) Given !!!!

          I'm sure no E car, E scooter or E bike in the house.
          If one day only self-driving, emotional and brainless E Mobile, I put my SAAB to look in a hall and put me on the bike or walk.
          I do not really want to think about such a future, but if it comes, I'll do it the same way.

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            Yes, the auto industry has had certain concepts in the drawer for years, petrol and diesel. would turn the exhaust fumes into “clean” cars. I would stress. Because they have to sell all the “stinkers” who are on the dump first. Or do you think that because of the VW scandal at VW, at least they will all be scrapped to make way for new models with “clean” engines? Not at all .... Are you also thinking of the thousands of people who fall ill and then die every year from the effects of exhaust fumes, especially from diesel vehicles? Wouldn't it be better, temporarily as a transition, to convert the current gasoline and diesel models to hybrid, increasingly to build the despised LPG models, as well as E and hydrogen models and to sell them in about 4-5 years?

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            One more thing about your affinity for e-vehicles: As a city dweller, you will hardly be able to avoid an e-car, an e-scooter or an e-bike, in about 10 years. Public transport is being reduced more and more, we humans are getting older and are therefore no longer as mobile as we used to be. You will hardly be able to move around in urban traffic with your old petrol spinner, because there will then be more bus lanes and lanes for e-vehicles, unless you are already at the city limits, the entry is forbidden and you have to change to bus or tram ...

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            @900S16V

            1)
            Did you really read my post exactly?
            There's something about LPG, ethanol, hydrogen and hybrid.
            On the contrary, the industry should finally do something!
            E Mobile may be a viable solution in sites but that's about it.

            2)
            Fortunately, I am not a city dweller.
            The last bigger city I visited was Klagenfurt and that is already a 3 / 4 year ago.

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            You should ask yourself why almost all engines (except traffic) are electric. Because they are massively more efficient! Smaller, stronger, quieter and lower consumption. The best diesel has about an efficiency of 30%, the electric motor of up to 90%, so 3x more efficient! The problem is with the battery. There, the new technology comes to fruition and there can and will happen a lot. The efficiency is constantly increasing and soon the combustion engine can pack up. I drive a Tesla and assure you, much more emotion does not work! (And I drove Saab for a very long time)

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            @ Jürg Unterweger

            Actually, I said everything about E Mobile but I like to say it again.
            Anyone who thinks the E Mobile is right for him or you are allowed to buy and drive these things.
            This is completely Wurscht me.
            I'm not interested in the bean like Fast or Efficient E Mobile.
            The only emotion that excites me when I see such a thing is the need to roll flat with a bulldozer. I really enjoy it and it is the only sensible use for an E mobile that comes to my mind.

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      From the Gigafactory then come again Panasonic notebook cells, Tesla has this simply bought the license. Recycled cells from the Tesla as well as the out-of-tolerance cells are then packed into the electricity storage for the home. In California, we use the most electricity (for the air conditioners) when the sun is at its highest. The power grids often have failures. The development of remote houses with power lines is expensive. These are all factors that make it possible to sell home electricity storage for this market. So the Gigafactory, regardless of the vehicle, will be busy.

      Once Tesla has the software for the universal manufacturing robot under control, they may be able to increase production of the Model S to 55 per year. I don't have the numbers, but the quarterly losses are still substantial. There is still no profit to be invested in the development of the Model III, the money comes from other sources. But it is impressive how shareholders are found and funding is tapped.

      I'll take a closer look at the Model III when it's available. But I do not like to drive with buggy vehicles around. Must probably maintain my Saab for a very long time (leave).

      The French are somehow forgotten in almost all discussions, Renault, for example, has already some ZE vehicles, which are already available depending on the purpose.

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        From the Gigafactory come 26650 cells (ie cells that are slightly larger than 1 / 3 18650er today), As written above, this describes only the form factor, not the design of the cells. Notebook cells were not and will not be.

        If you consider a car that is online to be bugged, then you will soon no longer be able to buy a new car - in the foreseeable future, e-Call will be mandatory for new cars. There is always a trade-off between data protection and convenience. I didn't want to do without online access with the Model S: monitoring the charge, starting the heating or air conditioning and of course internet radio, Google Maps and not to forget the OTA updates / upgrades of the system software.

        Well, French do not have the best image, but that's true, the ZOE is already an alternative to e-Golf, Leaf and Co.

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          True, the format change on 26650 cells, I had forgotten again. Then you do not need 8000 cells for a car anymore. For me, the Panasonic 18650 cells (funny as written with NCR) in my LED flashlights are used. They are also used in modeling, cameras and, attention, notebooks. The Panasonic cells are known to be accurate. The 26650 cells are increasingly popular with LED flashlights, but I have only one in this format myself.

          Yes, e-call worries me. Musk has bought the right people. Its IT infrastructure is completely new and was built in record time. At Tesla the OTA update / upgrade works. Over the life of the product, it is still possible for a hacker to find a security hole. Tesla may be well positioned as they are sure to take these threats seriously. With e-Call comes again a new technology in the vehicle, which will not have all providers under control.

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    At the last IAA, as a counterpart to the Tesla and the new Porsche e-mobile? see a new car from German production that had already come out with a gasoline engine. But here with an electric motor, lower weight than the Tesla, acceleration values ​​and range of the Tesla or the Porsche. It works… .Only: The long-established manufacturers of cars do not want to sell their gasoline and diesel slurries until the next few years, which are on the dump. This can and could also be seen in the low sales figures for LPG vehicles. Not because of the selling price or the not so dense network of petrol stations. The latter has improved in recent years. This would have made a transition to market readiness for hydrogen and / or electric cars possible and the environment would have been relieved (at least in terms of exhaust gases). The fact that one of the largest car companies has unfortunately cheated is causing some confusion in the sales of such cars with diesel and Otto engines.

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    My “desire” for a new car is also dwindling. On the one hand this is due to the technical development of the last few years and on the other hand to the behavior of the automobile companies. I have the feeling that the actual product “automobile” has been forgotten for a while in favor of profit. The automobiles are becoming more and more technologically demanding, but have more power but small, sophisticated engines and more and more little helpers on board. There is a regular facelift to hide the sometimes ugly content. Is that what the consumer really wants? At least I don't ...
    For me, a car has to be solidly built (also in such a way that you can do small repairs on the car yourself), be able to offer good mileage, have a few horsepower (for that I am happy to accept higher consumption - as long as the engine is too a long service), look chic and as optional equipment I only need seat heating and a navigation system.
    In other words - the automobile product is no longer as honest as it was 10 or 20 years ago. Current new cars are equipped with software down to the smallest detail, which also takes away the desire to drive. I long for honest cars without being afraid of driving a “consumer good” that is normal if it only drives for 5-7 years.
    Saabs have met my requirements quite well - a navigation system can also be retrofitted as a TomTom.

    My demand is simply more honest cars and a return to old values. Reliability, driving experience (for me this also includes the feeling of freedom that is being restricted by all kinds of assistants) and and and ...

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    Such contributions are the salt in the soup! I love this blog and I enjoy every time I receive a mail and finally can read something exciting again! THANK YOU!!!

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    A compliment to all the writers in front of me. It's great to read in such a blog. Of course, after Tom's great report, a thousand things are going through your head. After working through all the reports, most of them have already been written.
    So I am looking forward to my 9000er, which is moved every day, even from time to time. Having been a consistent member of our family since 1997, we've skipped over estimated 5-6 new car purchases. And that makes me feel pretty good, especially as the consumption is so close to 8-9 liters. All in all, the long drive of our Saabs seems to me, as everyone here does, at least as a small contribution to counter the madness of the waste of resources. From the new car purchase, I have personally adopted about 18 years ago and currently see, even in terms of an innovative vehicle, no reason to change it.

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      That is how I see it too. My last “new one” was the 9K CSE from 98 and nothing has persuaded me to change it since then. Slight progress would have been limited.

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    Much more can be saved through the daily organization of life than through the consumption of the car. Like a mountain goat with a bike to work, on foot to the corner pub, a hike in the local forest and shopping at the local butcher. The car can stop at anything. I walk to school earlier, we have to drive my son because the school is no longer in town and with the public he would have to leave about 2 hours earlier. Fortunately, we were able to carpool with other parents. It is wanted that we all have and move cars. The beef steak from my village butcher is not transported a meter in a car, but what about the meat in the supermarket, with the milk, the beer, the clothes, our furniture, ...... flexibility and the low price is always the decisive criterion and of course the fun !, wasn't someone 1.200km on the way to the Saab meeting?

    We cannot free ourselves from it and are therefore part of a functioning economic system, I also enjoy the further developments in the 9-5NG or the size and flexibility of the 9-7x, and NO, I don't need it as a… ..- extension and it will too only sometimes moved in a species-appropriate way or heavy things are hooked or invited. I have to admit that a Doge Ram on the street makes me more happy than a Toyota Prius! Let people drive what they want, SUV, bus, Saab or bicycle but each should correspond to the laws of its time and be optimized for the respective purpose. I could also imagine an electric vehicle in the short distance. At the moment, a Saab has been fetched for me for transport, on snow and ice, on the construction site, with family on the weekend, with a trailer on the hook, the 9-7x that can do everything!

    One more thing, we rehabilitate houses where all the living space is heated and look forward to energetic renovation of the formerly coal-fired house and consume more energy in the end, because everything is warm, as before. Why do not we ban the use of oil / gas / coal there, a new building and an old building I can easily with district heating (waste heat from electricity generation), heat heat pumps, because I do not have to move a heavy battery.

    So stay relaxed ... we can do it !! 😉

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      Also many thanks for the good article. He made me think a little again. In the absence of new SAAB models, my 932 convertible has moved into the second car position. Another vehicle from Stuttgart took first place, more or less as a company car. In the meantime, I had already made friends a little with the idea of ​​Tesla for the time when a vehicle change was due. At the current IAA 2015, however, a Tesla chassis with an attached dual motor drive was exhibited. I was really amazed at the simple vehicle construction. Here there was mainly storage space for the Panasonic battery cells that are currently still in use. The Tesla S model exhibited had, among other things, poor workmanship in the interior. The price of 100.000 ++ seems a bit high then. The free Supercharger Kwh's are probably already circled here. So think again in peace and wait.

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    I don't drive an SUV because I am of the exact opinion that I don't want to “lug around” so much to transport myself and my briefcase. But I can understand everyone who wants one. And I don't think that the cars, no matter what kind, are our problem. With the weight of the car, comfort has of course increased, but so has security. The problem is that we don't need that many cars, too many providers who cover every segment, no matter how small. The industry is rocking with ever bigger, better and stronger cars, a completely normal process.

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    Longer, wider and thus heavier and more drinking pleasure. That's about the formula for new cars.
    When I'm sitting in my 9000, I have more than enough space in the front, and you can also sit more comfortably in the back.
    For me, the “megalomania” in new cars is proof of the lack of imagination in the automotive industry. If you can’t think of anything innovative, the new model will be crammed full of useless technology, wider and a little longer than its predecessor. And that is supposed to be revolutionary and the ultimate innovation.

    And a question: Is there anything new from NEVS? Didn't you want to present another new partner / owner in autumn?

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    If you read these comments, and read through what NEVS publishes on their site for what they want to be and what they intend to do, then we would be in good hands with the NEVS intentions described in the comments. However, as you know, there are many ways to Rome and whether electric mobility is in the focus of the right one?

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      We haven't had NEVS on the blog for a long time… 😉 Blog author Michèl keeps in touch and was in the Stallbacka a few days ago. The parking spaces at the plant are filling up. After all, a positive indicator.

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    So the fact that Tesla does not get its Model S under 2 tons is due, among other things, to the fact that it gets the lowest possible drag coefficient. So if the handles are also lowered electrically, that has something to do with it. And the benefit with the car is many times greater. The car is a 5 seater and can be extended by 2 seats. The trunk at the back is really huge and there is also one at the front ... but extras like the panorama roof weigh more than sheet metal.
    The goal is to protect the environment at least locally. Basically, I do not understand why you (n) need an SUV. If I then also hear that for a (1!) Tires eg the Touareg 350, - € are due and for an inspection 1200, - €, I ask myself, why people buy something like that. And it does not matter if you can afford it or not.
    The first service of my electric UP cost 126, - € at km 8000. The next inspection is due at km 60.000. But then only the panorama roof is checked and the filter for the air conditioning is replaced ... it couldn't be cheaper. Fewer visits to the workshop also protect the environment. I also do my own electricity.
    Why an SUV when an average of 80% of all journeys are less than 50 km ...?
    Elon Musk said, in essence, why you have to burn the oil, the dinosaurs are already dead ... he also said (in an interview with a newspaper) that the development of batteries in 2020 (in 5 years) will drive cars 1.200km lets ... who else can do it?
    I personally believe that the development of the petrol and diesel engine is over.
    But why does Tesla also build an SUV ... because it can do it or the market wants it that way?
    Why is Audi the first electric car (e-tron) to build an SUV?
    Why Porsche a supercar as an electric car? To defy Tesla?
    Why not just build a simple car?
    I'm waiting for the model 3, intended for the mass market, for 35.000, dollars.

    If you feel like (and Tom allows me to point out) look at a promotional video from VW: Keywords Emobility Enjoy the silence. Then one understands that noise is also pollution.

    My neighbor has said that it is very dangerous on the street because you do not hear the car.
    You can't hear bicycles either, buses only when the engine makes a noise in the back ... this discussion will only last 25 years, then everything will be much quieter and the quality of life will increase significantly. Pay attention to it….

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      Engine noise is ehkaum still available for new cars. And rolling sounds make the tires of an electric car too.

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    THANK YOU for this fantastic article!
    He comes from the thought “How can I personally shape my life on our common globe in order to leave as little pollutants / dirt as possible?” quite close.
    Of course, there should also be fun and emotion. It's a long way ... but it's worth it for everyone! 🙂 Less noise, emissions, rubbish, hazardous waste, plastic in the oceans etc. and more movement, human contacts, social connections, open senses etc.
    I now use my converted single speed for the 7 km on duty…. 😉

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      There is a rule of thumb that says that the production of a new car has as much impact on the environment as the consumption of an average used car over 30.000 kilometers. Every “newbie” has to make up this number by reducing consumption until the environment has an advantage. Maybe we are not so wrong with our Saab infection and keeping cars that are no longer so young?

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        That would be about 3.000 L gasoline?

        According to this rule of thumb (with an under-consumption of 2 L per 100 km) with a new car, the energy-related production costs would actually have been reduced after 150 TKm ...

        I have doubts as to whether the rule of thumb actually reflects an overall balance. If so, the industry would be right and you should look for a more fuel-efficient new car regularly until you are on 0 L and can save no more gasoline.

        I can't believe this rule of thumb, but I don't know any better ...

        The calorific value of 3.000 L corresponds to approx. 27.000 kWh. 350 kWh is enough to melt one tonne of steel. That makes you thoughtful. So can it be?

        On the other hand 3.000 L petrol currently costs only 4.000 € and a car of the upper middle class 30.000 - 70.000 €.

        These are not just profit and wage costs, but also suggests high energy consumption - from raw material extraction to delivery ...

        Hmmm …

        Does anyone know more? There is a lot to it. And there lies the answer to sense and nonsense of one or the other car purchase.

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          The rule of thumb does not come from me, it is from a certain car newspaper (Springer Verlag). So many factors go into the balance sheet of auto production ... the ton of steel is the smallest factor. What about all the electronics that are installed and their environmental balance? Problematic, right? Difficult to say how accurate the formula is. Since one writes in the certain magazine “Autofreundlich” I assume the correctness - maybe the calculation is also too positive.

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            Yes, the manufacture of a car already begins (at least in part) with the mining and transport of raw materials for the production of machines intended for the mining and transport of raw materials ...

            Before the delivery of a car is a nearly endless chain of resource and energy consumption. As I already wrote elsewhere, there are nothing transparent overall balance sheets. It's milking to the mouse.

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    Hello Tom
    Here you speak the same number of topics. If you want to be economical, you should not buy a SUV. The exhaust gas scandal was only a matter of time. The policy demands limits that are difficult (if at all) for vehicles of the present generation are difficult to reach. Then they can drive only about 130km / h. Do we want that ??!! Are we ready? Politics is only pretending to people that they are doing something. And those who shout the loudest can be driven every day with their service Audi A8. The severity of today's vehicles is the result of what customers want. More and more (feeble-minded) extras up to the autonomously driving car. Do we want that ??
    I want to take responsibility myself. If I want to drive, I'll go by train or fly. The weight is a building block of consumption. Just saving weight does not bring the desired goal.

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    Interesting article and I find these “black… .extensions” more than pointless for normal journeys, but that's how people are, the stupidest animal on earth.
    On the other hand, it is so that our brand has drifted a bit ... 9-5 NG, 9-4 x 9-3 XWD V6 Turbo X and and and ...
    Even my 1,8 🙂 turbo (200 PS) automaton is not much less than 12l in the city. On the other hand, many modern petrol engines are on the road with more power and consume less ... also my 9000der Aero and that with an age difference of 22 years. Where is the progress in your own house?
    I think, for example, the new Renault engine fleet is quite good. Small displacement with turbo and that even in large cars. If you read the test reports then you will again complain that the engine is a bit weak on the highway! So there is first cheering about small engines and then again complaining that you are a bit too weakly motorized in a traffic jam or in the city ... completely pointless!
    That's why I buy an old CD with 2l Turbo and screw something on my Aero, so it's fun for a long time and consumes less on average than some new! Hope Orio has spare parts in stock for a long time!

    PS: As long as there is enough fuel for military equipment around the world, a discussion about fuel consumption and pollutants is a joke anyway!

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      Of course, Saab has not been able to escape the trend. On the other side are e-power and Biopower concepts that have gone down with the company. And it would have been, if the story had not gone as it ran, also given a small car from Trollhättan.

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        I drive now, also because of the banner advertisement here, MapTun BioPower. Goes well for a 15 year old car. Of course, the liter consumption is of course relatively large compared to the current competitors with their paper consumption. But I also read E85 results in an additional consumption of 30% (I can confirm), but a CO2 reduction by 60%. It astonishes me that natural gas and bioethanol are no longer receiving support.

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        Is there more information about the small car (9-1?)?
        And was not even a small SUV (9-2x) planned?
        Vlt. The failed projects like the 9-5 based on Alfa 159, 9-6x and the small cars and mini SUVs would also be an interesting blog topic….

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          Unfortunately, there is nothing we have in terms of material for the small car. But there is something about other secret projects that has never been shown ... Two topics are in preparation and will go online in winter at the latest 😉

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            Great ... you're really looking forward to winter 🙂
            And at the moment I have to thank the blog team for its work, because without the blog, my family would never have come to SAAB (and I would certainly not drive 9000 today)
            It is really remarkable how much passion and dedication this block is operating and thereby spreading the SAAB virus!

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      What a car consumes in the city does not matter. Cars are absolutely unsuitable as urban transport, so why should they be used there?

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        An interesting approach ... 🙂 It should be spread! Regards 🙂

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    Very well-written article Tom! You write to me from the soul, from the understanding and the reason! It has long been clear to me, without being an expert, that walking around 80000 i-phone batteries under your bum cannot be particularly ecological. With regard to the SUV, to put an end to fashion, the solution would be simple: to charge the prices of the vehicles with an eco-tax due to increased environmental pollution. Let's see how long the nonsense lasts ...

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    I mean the A2 and not the “A1”, right?

    In any case, I fully share that kind of thoughtfulness. The A2 would not have flopped in my opinion, if the top management had not - as you know - really hated.

    There was hardly any advertising for the fine, small (even light!) And intelligent car and the advertising that existed portrayed the car as “feminine”.

    And yet I know three men who had or still have one. No one else I ever talked to about this car made any secret of his enthusiasm.

    As with Audi, Daimler apparently also believes that intelligent vehicle concepts would damage their own image. Otherwise, the new A-Class would not look like it had become. And certainly not with engines to 360 PS.

    Their predecessors have sold well. Not quite as consistent and sophisticated as the A2, the A-Class was still something of the A2's only German relative. Both dead.

    That certain concepts are derided as inferior and taken out of the portfolio is evidence of narrow-minded arrogance.

    The success of dinosaurs - such as the Land Rover Defender, which is barely any frills - and the success of retrodesigns clearly show a longing of significant buyers for simplicity and the good old days.

    So how do you know that cars without new, additional and the weight to ever new records driving comfort features (keyword motorized and automated tailgates) would not sell?

    In addition to the weight, the complexity and thus the vulnerability of the system / car is constantly increasing. The auto industry is crazy! And my impression is that people and customers are increasingly being governed ...

    The development of the last 10 years and the ever faster model changes and facelifts dampen my desire for a new car quite considerably.

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      When the favorite brand disappears, a rethink sets in ... In earlier times I was an avowed buyer of new or annual cars. This is the past, you see things from a different perspective. The "desire for new cars" is suddenly on zero, the old Saab concepts are becoming more and more interesting 😉

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        That was the icing on the cake for the great article

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    Hello.

    Tom, this is really a very good article!
    (even if I somehow feel partially “spoken to” and “caught” in it). ;-(

    PS:
    My hairdresser still drives an A2 and says it's the best car he's ever had (previously VW, Audi, BMW). And he also thinks that he probably wants to continue driving despite the pending repairs, as he cannot currently find a “more flexible” and more suitable car for himself.

    Personally, I was / am a big fan of the old Saab “hatchbacks”…. what you got there when you needed it was amazing.

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      “Caught” is a good fit, because this feeling crept into me while reading. For half a year I have been moving a 9-5 NG TTiD, format and weight anything but smart and at the fuel pump, an average of 100 to 1,5 liters more diesel per 2 km go through the hose than the factory specifications promise. The conscience is reassured by the thesis that you do not drive a new car and therefore do not contribute to the environmental pollution caused by new car construction. Does that make up? I don't know ... After all, we in Germany owe endless jobs and a not inconsiderable proportion of our prosperity to automotive engineering. We must quite simply acknowledge that some of what we think and do is contradictory ...

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    First of all, that the “laboratory values” of the EU standard round do not correspond to everyday life is only logical and I do not see it as a problem.
    The standard round is for comparison and can only be compared if the test scenario is exactly the same for all.
    Same temperature, same humidity, same driving style, same route, etc.
    Something you can do exclusively on a chassis dynamometer in a hall. And every mass manufacturer adapts its control electronics more or less to it.
    The mistake that VW has made is that they have optimized too much and put the engine in a completely different program. Less power, etc.
    Btw. anyone who reads the sports car here knows for some time that almost all manufacturers change their engine management system when the car is on a roll test stand.
    Almost all participants of the super test have exactly the nominal power, but in the acceleration tests they always have 10% more power.

    I would already call Tesla an innovative one. 2.1 tons in this vehicle class is standard! I quote your post above:
    “Vehicles in the upper middle class weighed between 1.300 and 1.400 kilograms. 20 years later it is 2 tons. "
    Tesla therefore manages to accommodate masses of batteries and barely stay with the weight on Audi / BMW / Mercedes / Volvo Nivau.
    But yes, I do not see the electric drive by battery as the solution for the future, but at the moment it is the most effective way.

    But the innovation of Tesla is less the vehicle construction, so rather the infrastructure that they create. In California, you can easily cross the state from north to south and always have superchargers for fast loading within reach.

    At the end of the 1990er had the (I think it was) vintage car market an article on vintage / Yountimer driving greens, who had recognized that a large part of the environmental impact of the construction of a vehicle is produced and not in operation ( compared to the rest of the industry, the car is still clean)

    I had always hoped that, just as there will be LPG conversions, there will one day be hydrogen upgrades for gasoline engines ... but that will probably never happen.

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      "Already at the end of the 1990s (...)"

      That's right, that's not new. And then the cars were still comparatively light. How much more energy (and environmental toxins) flow today and after a gain in weight of about 50% in the production of a car of the upper middle class?

      Regardless of whether it is an automobile or the highly toxic (and at that time sold for 39,95 DM because of its high manufacturing costs [energy?]) Energy-saving lamp 1.0 ...

      Nothing at all, but nothing at all, which has to do with the energy and environmental discussion, are transparent overall balance sheets. It is quite possible that the political control of the last quarter century has reached almost nothing for people and the environment, but has simply shifted energy consumption from the consumer to industry. There are at least some indicators that speak for it.

      And why is only talk about energy? Environmental toxins are no longer an issue. What is the overall picture of a building that was subsequently insulated with questionable building glue and styrofoam, and shortly thereafter renovated with fungicides because of Schimmel's (energy-) renovated house, in which all light sources were also replaced by energy-saving lamps of the first generation?

      Sounds very human and environmentally friendly, or not? I want to see the balance!

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    Thank you for this contribution! The Audi A2 (mentioned as A1 in the text?), Like Saab since the 70s and 80s, was ahead of its time. The 3L Lupo already existed back then. All flops. Marketing wins over reason. Political legal regulations are not designed expediently due to the strong lobby. I would also like to mention that buying a used vehicle is the most resource-efficient way of individualized long-distance mobility. Ok, you do without the latest safety features, but for me personally at least a first-generation 9-5 would be safe enough ...

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      We drove an A2 for a long time and, because there is no other way, we will get another as a second car.
      The A2 is an almost perfect car (to perfection I miss personally rear engine / drive

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    Think times should be an A2, which was then vorklus time of his time

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      Of course, the A2. Thank you!

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        Thanks for this article Tom. I have been reading the blog for about 4 years now and I would not know any other article that spoke to me so much like this one.

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          I see it the same way; Thanks, Tom this was really good and refreshing.

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    One of the best comments I've read so far. Hats off!

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      Exactly, that's what I look like. Very good comment. Thank you

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      The scandal - Is that one no longer has the customer in focus, the largest buyers of new cars are leasing companies, car rental companies, dealers with compulsory acceptance. Only when the new price comes in regions where a vehicle is affordable is sales still possible. Or maybe it means that the customer doesn't want to spend too much money on dinosaurs. Are we waiting for the brilliant idea of ​​individual mobility?

      I claim - yes!
      Why? There is a trend - if you don't know it, you've missed the time!
      Should I rewrite this time? To explain? Show examples?

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        Peter, paraphrase. I'm curious…

Comments are closed.