Who invented it?

Opportunity for some car-talk. The view over our Saabian Tellerand we had in recent weeks barely, which has a reason. Let's start with a question. Which production vehicle had the world's first turbocharger with water injection?

Saab Turbo in 99
Saab Turbo in 99

Who invented it?

Correct. The Saab 99 Turbo was optionally available with water injection, and Saab experimented with this technology until the middle of the 80s. Then the technology that brings performance advantages and consumption minimization was forgotten.

She is now back at BMW. As a modern vehicle, the BMW M4 GTS brings Saab Turbo technology back to our times. There is a lot of praise for this, and in Munich they are rightly really proud and fair enough to point out that Saab was actually the pioneer for turbochargers with water injection.

Where is it built?

The Borgward story has been a guest on the blog several times, and I watched the rebirth of a legendary brand in the beginning with much sympathy. A former Saab designer, a former press chief, exciting. Until in China became public, what among the new models and who owns the brand. The topic came on the blog, was read a lot and shared a lot. The opinion of the Borgward AG was different, there was a counter-notification in a forum, which brought the sympathies of my side to zero.

The subject disappeared, which turned out to be a wise decision. Because Car News China, the most widely read information portal in English when it comes to vehicles from China, received a visit from Borgward ... which the editors did not find pleasant. Since then, Car News China has no longer been a sympathizer of the former German brand.

What it's all about in detail, how Borgward very efficiently drives down the sympathies of blogs, can be read here.

Is it a Citroen?

I am one of those people who live in difficult times - from an automotive perspective. I love brands that have built extraordinary cars, and I am unsure whether I will enjoy the approaching era of electric mobility. Before I got to Saab, I drove a Citroen and was happy with it. Somehow I still have the vehicles with the double angle in my heart, and maybe one day a DS or a CX will find its way to my Saabs in the hangar.

A few months ago, when the rumor spread that there would be a new Citroen C6, I became aware. The message relativized, because only China should get the new, large Citroen - which somehow reminded me of Saab.

Now the time has come, and somehow it hurts. Yes, there is a new, big Citroen. And that shares the PSA EMP2 platform with one Dongfeng Fengshen A9, And he does not look like a big Citroen, not after the first pictures, What to do? Quickly secure a DS or a CX?

Happy weekend to all readers!

22 thoughts on "Who invented it?"

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    As an old Citroën driver and lover I find it a great pity that the brand drifts more and more into arbitrariness. The old C6 was the last ray of hope. When I look at the new China C6, I can only shake my head. What a pity! So a brand is also buried. Since no sale of the noble name DS helps. What is sold under DS has as little to do with the style icon DS as fire and water. Very sad!

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    Hello Tom, in spite of all the enthusiasm for our brand, there was water injection 70 years ago in the last war aircraft with piston engines. The engine manufacturer was a Swabian car company. "Special emergency service" is the keyword for temporary extra performance at great heights. The Saab water injection was only available as an accessory kit in Sweden for the first generation M78-80 turbo engines with mechanical injection and Saab self-developed boost pressure control.
    However, driving such a Saab 99 Turbo with water injection is an experience, the boost pressure increases from 0,8 to 1,2 bar!
    We all love the powerful performance of the old Saab Turbos, but here you have 30-40 hp more from one second to the next. The compact, very direct chassis without power steering requires a lot of mental maturity from the driver ...
    see also the old blog article "What Makes Us Happy".
    A full use of water injection on German highways would have such an 99 Turbo due to the then not yet available anti-knock control (APC) probably not long survive.
    But Tom, I can understand you when the name BMW comes up and innovations ... Keyword freewheeling Saab96, "sailing" they call it with their strange high-roof 5er, here of course also fully electronic as now with the water injection. Speaking of other brands, I have nothing against BMW, but recently another Saab blogger in Trollhättan almost parked his M4 at a Saab event in the Saab Museum ... you don't have to be so disrespectful with our Saab feelings bypass.
    I am currently mentally looking for a successor to my Turbo X as a stress reliever, I've just landed on the ALPINA B3 S Biturbo X-Drive M2010… .400 PS and 540Nm. Resilient drive train, automatic and velvety power delivery that encourages responsible driving.
    All Saabfans a nice WE!

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      Thank you for the historical work-up
      Something you are worried me. Do you want to be unfaithful to the TX?

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    My love of cars have always been Citroen, Lancia, Saab
    Saab does not exist anymore
    Lancia is as good as dead
    Citroen, well, is not more like it used to, after all, my daughter drives a DS3 today
    And me? Watch my 4 Saab and 2 Lancia stay alive. The financial burden is growing from year to year. Well, look.

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    Unfortunately, that's the way it is. Therefore, I will soon take a look at the new Giulia, a car with a heart.
    Saab then as vintage (96) and convertible (9-3) as long as they are running.

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    Somehow all tragic. With Citroen the Hydropneumatik disappears, with SAAB it goes on maximally electrically, with Borgward are probably idiots, as one says in Bavarian.

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    Couldn't you develop a corresponding water injection for retrofitting for "newer" Saab?
    It might be a very nice idea for Orio, Hirsch or Maptun….

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      ... or hobbyist at a high level - there is such a thread in a forum and an experience report with a 9000 that even passed AU without any problems. In principle, water injection is the environmentally friendly alternative to the lean-burn engine - i.e. without NOx generation. To do this, however, you consequently need water vapor, which you can certainly get cleverly generated directly through hot ducts in the engine ...

      PS: At BMW there is currently nothing to be found in reference to Saab as a pioneer: "As the first series-produced road vehicle, the BMW M4 GTS has an innovative and groundbreaking water injection system that further optimizes the performance and consumption of the supercharged six-cylinder in-line engine at full load. "

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        Saab was mentioned in the press conference and the M4 was the first “modern”…. designated.

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    Quite uncommon what happened to the Car News China blog. Print media can be threatened with disfellowshipping, but Borgward underestimates how powerful bloggers are. I would have preferred to make a friend

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      You could also say that Borgward does not underestimate anything because strictly speaking Borgward does not exist. It's just a label glued to Chinese cars with the grandson's approval.

      Just someone with violence and a magic hat on the market and just want to market any China SUV as a German premium vehicle.

      Good, that was seen through. And good that the blogger is not for sale.

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        I think the reaction on both sides is a bit exaggerated. Yes- Borgward may be a Chinese car with traditional German names. And the press department's reaction was excessive. If the car is of good quality at a reasonable price - why not?
        Nobody complains that a Porsche Cayenne, for example, is mostly screwed together in Slovakia. The components are put together in Leipzig and Made in Germany is written on them. If Borgward is a sham, so is a Cayenne. Likewise a Bentley Bantayga - built in Slovakia. There are many more examples that automobile companies don't like to talk about. Still, good cars come out of it.
        How many components in current cars actually come from China. I think a lot.
        That's the brave new world of globalization.

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          That's it. I think it almost a minor matter on which platform the vehicles are and where they are built, as long as the product is good. Borgward plays an incomprehensible game, even with the clear ownership, which can only end badly. That's a pity, I would have expected more sovereignty.

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            Very important is who is behind it. If Borgward is on it Borgward must stand behind it and not Foton. I bought a Piaggio scooter for my little daughter. Made in China is big on it. I myself drive a slightly larger scooter also from Piaggio. This one is Made in Italy. When buying the small scooter I was assured by the dealer that this scooter is indeed built in China, but in contrast to other manufacturers, which have been commissioned by Chinese manufacturers in order, in its own Chinese Piaggio factory. And of course developed in Italy. If I then look at the quality of other scooters from Chinese production so I have to say at Piaggio to do it right and the good name holds also from Chinese production what he promises. In my youth I was traveling only with great vehicles from Kreidler. Today it goes into my stomach and all intestines when I get to see such a Chinese shred to which the German company Prophete (currently owner of the brand name) sticks the good name Kreidler.

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    In contrast to the Dongfeng issue, which has probably borrowed heavily on the VW Passat, I find that the Citroen then still can offer brand identity. But that's reserved again for the Chinese. To Borgward I have to say, that was really inspiring me at the beginning but what was run by the Borgwardenkel and at times I thought that could be an alternative, if there are no new Saabs more. In the meantime, I am quite angry with this grandson, who says he could fool people in a simple way. Grandpa would probably not be very proud of this grandson

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    I can well imagine that Citroen sympathy among Saab drivers are not rare. For example, I would not object to a CX or XM. (Not against a C6, too.)

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      That's right ... I would also take a nice SM as a gift, for example! 😉

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        I've had the brochures for many years ... It's a temptation 😉

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          Moin Tom.

          Such a SM in "bronze / gold" with yellow lights stood as a child in the mid / late 70s every day on my way back from elementary school in a single small workshop at a gas station (with a small car dealership attached ... Talbot / Simca) .
          Almost every day I flattened my nose briefly on the "glass doors" without actually knowing exactly what kind of car it was ... (and also without being a big car fanatic {been or current}). 🙂

          Similarly, I've become a Saab fan….
          A friend of my parents ("company"; previously only the newest and fastest Alfa, Jaguar, Porsche & Co.) suddenly had such a strange, completely outdated "Eastern Europe car" in black with a hatchback and a silly rubber spoiler.
          Although I found the car completely funny and antiquated, I had never seen anything like it before and never heard of the strange brand, but since then I was still enthusiastic about the "strange car" (and still am).
          By the way, it was a 900 Turbo16V in black with a “cream-colored” leather interior! 🙂

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          I feel the same way, probably have all the Citroen brochures from 1970 to around 1980, even one of the last DS brochures and also the wonderful SM brochure printed on glossy paper. And I just keep dreaming of an SM in the garage ...

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      I think that's true. There are people with similar good taste in the automotive industry.

      By the way, the C6 is nearly as rare as the last 9-5. And the prices have been pretty good.

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        And the C6 station wagon is even rarer than the new 9-5 SC

        But seriously, who does not have to think about France when looking at the tail and taillights of a SAAB 95? And who would not like to have a DS in the fleet?

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