3 new cars for the wish list
Fancy a new car? And no need to park a mainstream SUV next to the Saab in the carport? Fortunately there are alternatives! A - admittedly very subjective - selection of three temptations that are not a bit boring and that cut a good figure next to a Saab.
Subaru BRZ
Would not be the Bilster mountain been, I would never have come across the BRZ in my life. Why? Maybe because you wouldn't look for such a casual, sporty coupe at Subaru. Since then, I haven't got the little athlete out of my mind. It cut into my brain and that could have consequences. Rear-wheel drive, lightweight construction, boxer engine, low center of gravity. The Subaru has what it takes. Drive it to the office in the morning, then on the way home in the evening take detours along small, winding country roads.
The BRZ has no turbo, but a 2 liter boxer that gets its power from high speeds. The 6-speed transmission shifts crisply, the road holding is phenomenal. The BRZ brings back what was originally the fun of driving. Its 200 hp is enough to show the rear of much more powerful vehicles on the country road.
Actually, Subaru deserves a Medal of Merit for having the courage to revive the class of small, affordable athletes. The cool GT is understated, fun without regret and affordable. If a Porsche or Lotus label would stick to its hood, it would cost several bills more expensive.
Alpine A110
Resurrecting a legend is difficult. Volkswagen had a Waterloo with the Beetle, but Fiat had it with the 500. Renault has ventured into the Alpine brand, founded in 1955, and the operation smells suspiciously of success. The successor to the first A110 rolls off the assembly line in Dieppe, Alpine's original home. As with the BRZ, the A110 relies on small, fine, light. In terms of price and with an output of 250 hp, the Alpine, at just under €58.000, is well above the GT, which costs around €35.000.
The French are doing everything right with the restart. The first edition, limited to 1955 copies, has been sold out for ages. Anyone who has ordered and paid in advance has to wait patiently, because production is only ramped up very slowly. On June 28th, the number 1.000 rolled off the production lines in Normandy. According to insiders, it could take another 1 to 2 years for the entry-level version to hit the market. After all: Reservation is possible, € 2.000 deposit is then due.
In Frankfurt, an Alpine base will be built in the Klassik Stadt, close by Saab Service Frankfurt, And by coincidence, quite apart from that, our next great family vacation is to lead to Normandy.
Two proposals, two sports cars. Too narrow, too sporty? Let's stay in France, because the car industry of the country remembers its old strength and supplies fine gourmet goods as an alternative to the German premium stew.
Peugeot 508
The new edition of the Peugeot 508 could pass as a Gallic Saab 9000 reincarnation. At least at first glance. A continuous rear panel, as it might have been designed on the drawing board in Trollhättan in 2018, garnished with a large tailgate. In addition: The same 1.6 liter turbo gasoline engine with up to 225 hp works under the hood that we would have gotten in the Saab 9-3 III, the next 9-5 generation and the 9-4x successor. Including an 8-speed automatic from Aisin.
The Peugeot hatchback sedan is beautifully drawn and optically worth a temptation. The operating concept in the interior, with the small and strangely positioned steering wheel, is at least strange. Does the form still follow the function, or is it just design to manifest otherness?
Only the way to the next Peugeot base helps. Look, feel, maybe drive to the test. Or maybe the fine driving machine of Subaru or the returning legend from Normandy? The question is difficult, because there is a fourth alternative. Buy an old Saab, restore it, have fun as well. In the end, it may cost even less and is sustainable.
My favorite for a new car was until yesterday the new DS7. Looked at him, outside and inside great car, but the dashboard is just terrible. Terrible what is offered, no overview, no outline and everything completely oversubscribed.
I stay with my Saab 🙂
I look like you! The DS7 made me curious in the beginning, but the interior design does not work. Too much show, not cool at all.
As I wrote before, maybe you have to drive him to understand him?
But especially in terms of “(affordable) lightweight construction”, I find the GT in terms of the data available. More than 1,2 tons for two seats are not lightweight. Affordable yes, lightweight construction no!
Less would be really more. There are competitors who need 2 seconds less from 0 to 100 with similar performance. These are worlds.
However, the competition, which is up to 300 kg lighter, is not so easy to pay for. Less is more - but sometimes it also costs more - significantly more ...
Exactly: Driving to understand is good, it's fun! Of course, the lighter competitors play a completely different kind of music, a small lotus is much more extreme.
For me there is no longer any “desire for new cars”. Not anymore because of all the displays and touchscreens and the overflowing (IT) technology. Meanwhile, I also canceled the ams (which I had hardly read in the last few years anyway) ...
I tend to go the opposite way. After 9-5 chrome glasses (my last new car) there was a 9-5 Aero from 2004 and the next “main car” is expected to be a 9000 Aero from 1996. Less because of cost considerations or “ideological” motivation (sustainability), but because I increasingly like the old cars as an alternative to the newer mostly mainstream models with what feels like 100 variations (niches). If it had to be something bigger, it would be an “old” BMW 7er (E38) or a “classic” Jaguar XJ (X350). In addition, as a second or third vehicle, I drive a 9-3I Coupé from 2001 and a 900I Cabrio from 1992, both of which I will keep and keep for as long as possible.
Tom7346, I agree: "new cars" do not interest me anymore!
I work near a large Sixt dealership, and what I see there looks almost the same, Jaguar to BMW, Audi and Daimler, in between Kia and Volvo… it's terrifyingly boring, especially since I'm far too young for articulated SUVs.
My real main problem with the car is that they give me no feeling: driving pleasure is for me less full throttle acceleration on the AB or at the traffic lights (2-5x fun, then boring), certainly not an electronic gimmick (1x funny , then bland), but the border area in curves, and I achieve that with today's robots far beyond StVO and reason. A car of the 70er, 80er or 90er is already starting to scrape before today's dampen their damper; and if you just want to get from A to B, then you just take it easy and drive the SUVs in the curves afterwards; and so I drive 25 tkm a year.
Saab 901 to 931, E34 or W126 are also cars like the one you mentioned: solid, fun to drive, and in my insignificant opinion much more individual, restrained and stylish than any niche new car.
Or as Tom would say: analog.
The GT at second glance:
It is cheap and its exterior is pleasantly simple. The technical concept is different and exciting. But a look at the technical data dampens my fascination and interest ...
The fact that my 9-5 SC (2,0t deer) no longer uses up, reaches a higher speed and sticks to the bumper of the small GT itself from 0 to 100, irritates me a bit ...
Even its predecessor (a 9000) could do that. After all, all fully-grown cars with 5 seats and a significantly larger trunk. SAAB has done a lot right and really well a long time ago ...
There are significantly lighter and more agile two-seaters than a BRZ that perform more and also consume less. The "added value" of the BRZ must be somewhere else and apart from the technical data ...
Maybe it is (apart from the low price) yes just the abandonment of a complex aggregate? The abandonment of lightweight construction? Maybe you just have to drive it yourself to really understand it?
The GT is affordable lightweight and, due to the extremely low center of gravity, fascinating road conditions. And a great high speed boxer. A car for the highway, for fast corners. Not for top speed. You have to rethink seriously, dear Herbert. Where: A weight reduced even more version would be great. Less is usually more.
Yes Tom, I think I should lend Herbert my BRZ with 280 PS? Then on the Nordschleife, he with his stalked 9-5-Untersteurer, as separates very quickly the chaff from the wheat! In terms of performance, they should be the same in order to be objective. The two cars are not comparable in type, right? There is hardly any difference. Keep it up. PS: By the way, I have been driving 17 Subarus since 53 years next to Saab (6 years). LG
A good idea 😉
Is that a serious offer?
Then, of course, I assume! ! !
I also realize that a BRZ will be fun on a closed road. Especially if he does not conform to the series, but has 280 PS.
I'm all too happy to drive the Nordschleife with a crisp 6-speed gearbox, a low center of gravity, short overhangs, rear-wheel drive and 400 to 500 kg less. Of course, no chrome glasses can keep up ...
But the point is different: What is a good alternative to or a good addition to the SAABs on the farm?
And then I can think of other cars. A GT can be a supplement, but it is definitely not the only possible one ...
I wouldn't have thought it, but the new “American” Volvo S60 with interesting technology (including “double wishbone” chassis ...) has appeared on my radar. But the Peugeot has also become really chic.
The Alpine I find exciting. Would be with me a tight purchase duel with an Alfa Romeo 4C.
These are already interesting vehicles. For me personally, these would not come into question. Since I have to select a new vehicle every 3 years, I am currently looking for an alternative to the V70, because the V90 is currently much too off-hook (from the prices). The interesting vehicles for me currently come from Kia with the Stinger, but also the Kia Optima. Let's see what it will be
I am just imagining our tandem caravan behind the A 110 ...
Great car with character and style, but only limited use as an everyday car.
Greeting
Linus
The fascination of the Subaru BRZ lights up immediately!
A boxer and a vacuum cleaner designed for high speed are about as exotic today as the SAAB turbos were once. The turbo has long been mainstream. That speaks for the concept and is perhaps a late satisfaction and confirmation for one or the other SAAB engineer ...
... provided the early turbo fathers and grandfathers are still alive and take note of that.
A turbo is also a complex and sensitive part of engine management, requiring additional hoses and by-pass valves (which will age, crack, or break), and the supercharger itself usually has a much shorter life than the engine block.
Anyway, with my youngest SAAB, the second loader has long been inside and the by-pass valve has been broken before. At just under 120.000 Km, two-thirds of all breakdowns are directly or indirectly attributable to (otherwise very innovative, effective and efficient) forced ventilation.
The basic principle of a boxer initially requires more components than an in-line engine. However, the mass balance in a boxer is perfect per se. From the 9000, SAAB has forced the smooth running of an 4 cylinder in-line engine with much technical effort from its 6 series cylinders. Even the German motor press was full of praise on this point.
Such smooth and potent 4 cylinder had not seen the world until then. With turbo and two counter-balance shafts but they also belonged to the complex engineered aggregates. To put it more positively, these were probably the most advanced 4 cylinders on the market.
Whether such an aggregate actually manages with fewer components than a boxer at the end, but you would have to recount times based on the exploded views and understand.
It may also apply here that not all roads lead to Rome, but at least more than one. And since the Subaru BRZ seems to me to take a possible path beyond the mainstream. That is of course very personable and also technically interesting ...
That's exactly how SAAB did it once. In any case, at the given time, they're both off the mainstream. So there is at least something like the lowest common denominator between Subaru and SAAB. It is the willingness to go your own way. After all …
Already the second charger at 120000km? However, this is quite unusual if one does not assume an “operating error”. With my 9-3I, the first charger was due at approx. 300000 km, I sold the 9k with 270000 km (1st charger still ok), with the 9-5 the previous owner changed the charger at approx 210000km thrown out the loader. Not because it was necessary, but because I wanted a bigger one with more steam. Our Volvos (diesel, is not 901% comparable) were or are still on the road with the first loader equipment beyond 220000km.
How do you define “operating errors” in a loader?
The trusted SAAB service partner asked me if I might have just accelerated (which was true). He also wanted to know whether the vehicle had deflected, whether I might have driven over a bump. Perhaps a rather elongated one on the motorway that was not visible and not signposted ...
It was all right. But how did he know that? ? ?
He explained to me that it would happen all the time. If the ground was uneven, the loader's oil supply would also sag. Stupid when it is running at full speed and suddenly unlubricated at 22.000 rpm ...
In the meantime I know the bump in the road and take off the gas beforehand. Meanwhile I also know about the weakness described. But was that an “operator error” before? I think no!
Why should an engine behind the suspension be so far behind? It does not make any sense to build a car that passes smoothly on a bump, but weakens or even spontaneously and completely disassembled important components of the drive.
By “operating error” I meant calling a charger to full boost pressure when it was cold and simply turning it off, glowing red. This is how you kill every loader after a short time.
I'm trying to imagine going through a bump or something like that. the oil supply collapses ... especially since the part is connected to the rest of the engine's oil supply. Damage would then have to arise. In a healthy engine, the oil pressure is usually more than sufficient and the oil doesn't just “slosh” easily through the lines ... they aren't made of metal for nothing.
However, it was not what I meant by “operator error”.
When the bump came, the car was neither red-hot turned off nor cold, but with 200 Km / h on the way and already running just under 200 Km. With ideal temperature and otherwise under conditions that I considered perfectly normal.
I can't say more about that either. And why the oil supply of the loader should suffer from a bump in the ground doesn't make sense to me either ...
But it was astonishing how seamlessly I was informed of the relevant analysis of the driving situation (which actually preceded the damage). There must be something right about it. Especially since the service of trust was based on empirical values ...
Since the software doesn't let me answer the last post here: As I said, I actually ruled out an “operating error” in someone who obviously wasn't running a turbo since yesterday.
In general, regardless of the situation described here, but a possibility for a much shorter loader life.
As I said, the SAAB service partner was very specific and precise ...
It's not about cobblestones, gravel roads or potholes. A rumble in the chassis is no problem at all for the loader and its oil supply.
Only long and deep bumps in which the vehicle sags and compresses can interrupt the oil supply to the loader. And probably only if the vehicle is being challenged at the same time (acceleration / high engine speed).
That comes on German highways (without speed limit) but apparently from time to time, because the problem was known. I was neither a first case nor an isolated case.
And when I think about it like that, then this explanation also makes sense technically. Adequate oil pressure and metal lines are all well and good, but an engine isn't full to the brim with oil. There is also air in the system. And it's easier now. The driving situation described (and precisely analyzed by the service) seems to me suitable for pushing the oil down and briefly “drying” the charger at the wrong and decisive moment.
In this respect it was actually an “operating error”. To avoid it, I should have known about the problem and seen or already knew the bump. Would have, would have ...
I'm not blaming myself. Not even the car. But I stand by my statement that a loader often doesn't last as long as the engine. And if I understand correctly, we share this experience (albeit with different cars and mileage ...).
Oh, I haven't heard that either - interesting and good to know!
Tom, I can only confirm that, the BRZ is a grenade, especially suitable for drifting. I have this car since 2012 itself. Pure driving pleasure. Nothing bangs, nothing breaks, just refuel, new tires and inspection! Instead of the Peugeot 508, I can only recommend my Subaru WRX STI, an 2010 model. Unfortunately, Peugeot has no value for me! The Alpine A 110 very nice, but also relatively tight for tall people. LG
The 508 is already a very nice car and the station wagon will probably be even better. What makes the even tastier and I did not know is the matter with the engine. How can it be that the same engines are installed there as with the no longer released new models from Saab? Something has escaped me! Dear Tom, could you explain that to me? Thank you.
With pleasure! The 1.6 liter would have come from the cooperation PSA / BMW. Saab internal code: N18. At the end of 2012, he would have come in the 9-3 III (Fenix), MY 2014 in the 9-5, and the MY 2016 in the 9-4x (Fenix) and would have replaced all 2.0 liter turbo petrol engines.
Thanks for the clarification! Of course, the future still has to show if they run as reliably as the B 206 in my Aero. 😉
Dear Zsolt, thank you for starting the explanation!
The B206 is probably not in the Aero. B206 = B204 without balance shafts, probably only available in Europe at short notice in the 902 (Source: Wiki EN for Saab H-Engine)
B207! Excuse me!
Hmm - tasty alternatives indeed. The BRZ is awesome - but only brings that big grin between your ears if you actually use the speed range. In the Alpine, even cruising puts a smile on your face - even seen in the wild but not yet experienced. Therefore, it is probably very close to the experience of driving on the Saab: depending on your needs or your mood, slide or move forward fairly quickly and always feel safe and in control of the situation (or believe in this same belief). The Peugeot definitely doesn't look bad from the outside - but everyone has to decide for himself whether he feels comfortable inside too ...
Of the three available to choose from, the Alpine is certainly the most delicious offer. But maybe something else is more appealing: Buying and building a normally maintained (i.e. virtually neglected) 9-3 Viggens up to the perfection you expect - which certainly exceeds the price range of the BRZ, but promises a more permanent grin on the face from the possible driving pleasure experience and certainly falls because then one or the other story in the blog from ...
I have Subaru in the back of my mind as a district vehicle, but passionless. Before SAAB, my cars, although pleasing to me, were chosen more according to purpose and price-performance. Externally there is one or the other car because I find it very nice, but at the latest when I sit down and see the interior, it goes away again. I don't like displays and touchpads instead of instruments and switches. Since I've been in the IT industry for over 20 years ... 😉
I know the problem. The current display flood, see Audi Q8 with meanwhile 3 displays, is deterrent. But China wants it that way. Not me.
Ok, basically I'm with you, but then I have to break a lance for “German Premium” (terrible, this division, I know) - currently drive an Audi A5 Sportback (on business) - and I consciously rely on the “Virtual Cockpit ”- although I also come from IT :-). So, nice analog fittings, light leather, wood, Gotland green metallic - everything just like my old 9-5 Aero - and it also has a large tailgate! Drives very comfortably! The Peugeot is ok, but optically I like the A5 or a Jag or a Maserati (used not soooo expensive!) Still better - a matter of taste! And for the nice hours in my free time I still have my open 9-3 I Aero ...
If the family doesn't just consist of Tom and a Miniature Pinscher, the “big family vacation” with the Alpine or the BRZ is probably a utopia 😉
KIA Stinger would be an alternative, also with a large tailgate.
That is the privilege of a larger fleet. Then you may das
Ok, I thought the new acquisition should be something like a “main car”. That of course also explains the really contradicting concepts of the vehicles available for selection.
The main idea is towards having fun. A110 or BRZ, as a supplement to the Saabs. The 508 would be a completely different story, and then probably a “main car”. But right now it's really just mind games.
Yep, I can sign that, I test-driven the Stinger V6 Bi-Turbo (which I hardly do at all, but I was curious about it). Huuui, that went off! Everything at a very high level, only the qualitative “last details” are managed by others a little better (from their own experience Audi A5 Sportback) - but in view of the price it can hardly be topped!
From a purely subjective point of view, I find the Jaguar XE and the new Volvo S60 very interesting ...
The thoughts are free ... ;-), and that's a good thing!
BRZ, I'm out of old age 😉 and “rationalized”, no longer an issue.
The (?) ALPINE was always a temptation for me ..., but TODAY I don't enjoy using a car anymore: full, traffic jam, annoyed contemporaries, RED is now “only” a recommendation, etc.
That leaves the Peugeot: as an old 504 TI user in the 80s, it is certainly an option if I needed a vehicle ... but I am currently massively restricting the use of a car and increasingly using my own strength and possibilities! 🙂
Nevertheless, Tom, an article that opens the senses!
Tom makes me wonder 😉 I never had the BRZ on my radar until it was on the Bilster Berg. Since then, I've had an appetite for it. It would be something sporty, as long as you can still have fun and it is not forbidden. (Will definitely come!) The Alpine is delicious, the Peugot interesting. Difficult…
Yes! Buying an old Saab is not only the most beautiful solution, but far more sustainable and - there it is: ultimately costs less, even with all repair and maintenance perspectives….
Currently four thumbs up. Nill down.
Who wanted to contradict? It would be an online suicide mission ...
I still dare to raise a carefully worded objection. From a few years (at the latest 10) years on, cars will no longer be cheaper. The annual depreciation may tend towards zero, but the maintenance and repair costs increase disproportionately and the reliability of the vehicle decreases ...
An increase in value is usually still a long way off after 9, 10 or 11 years. That may be different with SAAB. But that also varies a lot depending on the model and equipment.
In short: the statement that you can move EVERYONE, really every SAAB “ultimately less” costly and more sustainably than any other car, is too general for me and I consider it completely wrong.
Lately I find Peugeot not bad as a possible “alternative” (SUV, station wagon, 5008; and especially because of the inner workings and especially the center console !!!)! 🙂
The sister company Citroen / DS, however, I think (among other things, because of too much frippery inside) lately, unfortunately not so dolle.
I can not make friends with Subaru.
Subaru isn't supposed to be that bad brand ... just a little less noticed in D.
I think the BRZ is very chic on the outside, but I don't like it that much inside. ... and is just a sports car ...
An (e) Alpine is of course something very nice (but unfortunately I'm too “stuffy and sedate” for sports cars like this)! 😉