Saab in the media and E85 petition for climate protection

What a week! I finally had a scheduler that was not as bulky as usual. Determined, I took the opportunity, left the official car and drove Saab. The reactions to it were absolutely positive. An older Saab arouses sympathy - still. It can hardly have been a problem with the cars that the brand no longer exists.

Saab Aero on the way in the Rhön
Saab Aero on the way in the Rhön

It was a good week for the brand. Saab Kiel was represented in the Autobild with issue 35, which gave the Kieler website an enormous traffic. But it got better. On Thursday the article also appeared in the online edition of Bild-Zeitung, She demonstrated once again what she has for incredible potential. The traffic of the Kiel website finally went through the ceiling. A better advertisement for the brand with broad effect one can hardly wish.

Nice: Not only Kiel profits. The web address of Orio as a supplier of Saab Original spare parts, this also found its way into the press. The message is clear. Driving an older car of a no longer producing brand is not a risk.

The Grailkeeper in the Autobild
The Grailkeeper in the Autobild

Actually, older vehicles deserve a completely different status. At least if the government's environmental policy were sustainable. Which she is by no means. Or if it was based on incentive and reward, which is not true.

E85 petition for climate protection

A quick, effective and cost-effective way to reduce CO2 emissions in road traffic immediately would be to use E85. A kind of emergency aid for our climate, which would apply immediately. Our French neighbors are taking this unconventional route and, in contrast to the Federal Republic, are quite successful with their climate targets. Many older vehicles, and above all Saabs, can be converted to biofuel with little effort. Climate protection, which now and here almost everyone could afford, and the old cars would allow a longer use.

In reality, E85 is no longer available in Germany, the diesel lobby has successfully fought this positive for the climate positive transitional solution, then banned by the government from the pumps. One started in August Online petition for the rather unlikely reintroduction of E85 as an immediate climate change measure.

The matter seems hopeless and, after more than 2 weeks, is light-years away from the intended 50.000 signatures for the Petitions Committee of the Bundestag. What could be the problem? Maybe because electric cars are on everyone's lips and, once again, presented as alternatives. At least a bit of technology openness for climate protection and sustainability would be good for the upcoming discussions right now.

25 thoughts too "Saab in the media and E85 petition for climate protection"

  • How the company car is not Saab?

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    • Everything has its time and has to fit into life.

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      • As long as the blog continues to run everything is fine for me 🙂

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        • Do not worry! Company cars are temporary solutions. But Saabs stay.

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          • As for E85, I can only agree with Tom. Unfortunately, the Swiss politicians have totally failed here! And how environmentally friendly would an E85 engine with a hybrid be?

  • Hello, I have a question. I have a Saab 900. I would like to sell it. What can I ask for it? I would finish him also TÜV. It would be nice if I get an answer.

    Greeting

    Conni Bürks

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    • Dear Mrs. Bürks,
      What you can still get for your Saab 900 is hard to say. This depends in particular on the age and condition of the vehicle and the mileage. The most practicable procedure is likely to be, if you inform yourself on the usual sales pages (eg mobile.de or autoscout24.de), what are called here for comparable vehicles for prices.

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  • That's exactly what I meant. One should be open to technology and not just see e-mobility as the only way. When it comes to politics, I'm not sure if they want to save the climate or if they just want to make a checkout.

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    • I'm sure of that now.

      First comes the (state) cash register and then come very far back (after election gifts, clientele policy and lobbyists) the climate and environmental protection. For this reason biofuels were never allowed to prevail in Germany because it makes no sense at all to levy a mineral oil tax (!) On plant production and waste utilization (!) ...

      Second, a CO2 tax would not make sense for a closed and climate-neutral cycle of renewable resources. The slump in already beloved or the perspective revenue of the state would have been enormous ...

      An Ex-Minister of Finance (Schäuble) can only today with impunity publicly threshed his phrases (climate protection is not for free), because he has diligently worked to create just those conditions that would allow him later, such a sentence to fire below the journalistic and civil radar.

      After all, everything is very cleverly threaded. We just do not know who this praise deserves in the end.
      We do not know whether this fiscal and private foresight in the parties or the
      Think tanks of the lobbyists was settled and is ...

      But maybe you do not always have to know everything very well,
      to allow yourself an opinion? ? ?

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  • SUPPORT PETITION!

    People, sign the petition and make advertising in the circle of acquaintances!

    Most of them do not even know E85 because the German automobile lobby always polemicises it (and ignores it for itself). It was not possible to sell new cars (and thus further damaged the climate).

    Just copy the good arguments from Tom (thanks for that) and forward them. The reference to France is very helpful, as new fueling points have been installed over 1.000 in the last two years. Public buses drive with waste from the wine production.

    Main arguments: E85 does not emit any fossil CO2 at all. So: CO2 output = 0,0! (Apart from 15prozentigrn gasoline content.) A production of forest and biowaste is possible. Instead of the div. Biogasanlagen on the farms could also be produced E85 (if it would be promoted as well as tax). A cheap alternative for older petrol engines (retrofit kit, see France), which were not as progressive as Saab. The most climate-friendly car is and remains an already produced car (quote Tom). Anyway, we're all refueling E10 anyway!

    Here are some useful links from 2018 (after that, E85 has seen a big boom in France):

    https://www.motor-talk.de/news/ein-paar-liter-bordeaux-fuer-den-bus-t6433522.html

    https://www.passioncereales.fr/presentation/actualites/le-super%C3%A9thanol-e85-passe-le-cap-des-1000-stations-en-france

    https://www.bdbe.de/tanken/e85

    Thank you! 🙂

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    • Thanks for that! That speaks to me from the heart!

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    • DEMOCRACY 2.0

      Signed. Your comment is a nice addition to the article and a successful summary on the subject.
      Thank you.

      The mean of the petition is becoming more important. Citizens of all grades learn the lessons from the fact that political majorities on individual issues are clearly (and for decades) freely negotiated ...

      Free and without any regard for the news or electoral will between more or less significant coalition parties negotiated under the influence of lobbyists and under sleep deprivation. What else should come out of it, such as a car toll and high claims for damages to the state - ultimately to us taxpayers? Or just the meaningless and short-sighted abolition of E85 and BioDiesel?

      Petitions are a fine thing, are primordial and grassroots democratic and online they are also more convenient and contemporary than the local or postal print media conducted election act or as a hard cover party book with needle stitching and gold cutting.

      Only the history of the petition and the etymology of this synonym (for a petition) fade out when signing better. It is time for civil demands. Begging and begging have become obsolete. Should it at least ...

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  • There was always the argument that plant cultivation for sprinkling E85 would take away area for the cultivation of food. I think that the area for the production of cheap animal feed is much less land use. Anyway, I would absolutely welcome it, if we could refuel our 2008er Cabrio again with E85. Cheaper and more power!

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    • If this argument had ever been valid, today we would not have a statutory E5 and E10.
      We would continue to have pure mineral oil products. Instead, we burn more ethanol than ever before.

      The deal (between lobbyists and policymakers) was about as much on the diet of the world's population,
      like BASF with weeds, insects or the health of farmers and consumers ...

      It was about two things and the interests fit together well:

      • Protecting the use and consumption of (at least 90 to 95%) mineral oil in the long term (in the interest of the lobby)
      • levy 100% of the mineral oil tax on every single liter (fiscally political interest)

      It did not take much imagination to foresee the deal of this constellation and the end of E85.
      And yet I am surprised how disillusioned - yes downright cynical - one would have to be ...

      E85 was a perspective and a future project. It was about local and national waste recycling. France shows us today that this idea was right, good and even really good. It works.

      The competition to a well-filled plate in the hands of a human child was never part of the vision.

      Ironically, Germany is right there today. Local and national producers of ethanol or oil suitable for vegetable oil were killed. The trillions of tonnes of admixtures we now prefer to buy on the world market and actually in competition with one or the other child welfare. Cynically it does not work. I am ashamed for our country and our climate chancellor ...

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      • Have answered a part of my question between lobbies and politics: Fiscal political interest of the GREAT!

        The intensively interesting Bio-Power 100 engine technology, which at that time wanted to continue our beloved Saab brand, could certainly have been an ambitious example for the competition, in addition to the more and more "insatiable" goal-oriented power and torque increases of the motorizations, that the automotive industry for which offers today's current vehicle, could have been very useful in a good conscience of our environment to take a "green" step! But this train has unfortunately left, especially thanks to GM's negative help to fight the Swedes to survive.

        Back then, there were some engine engineers from reputable vehicle manufacturers who had interests in tackling their engine performance with bio-ethanol in the fuel-flex system, as it is not just a fuel product that is "simple, clean and safe" all over Europe cheap "can be produced; but no, the big minealobelists in consultation with the politicians, who for the most part unfortunately influence our automobile industry, saw too great risks of loss, which do not make a commercial sense of the "small" pollution problem and are therefore afraid of being able to rule world politics in their empire.

        This rethinking costs the economy more today than if it had been gradually introduced and continued, and we would probably have been a small step ahead of air pollution in terrestrial mobile traffic; maybe not completely clean, but a little cleaner than we are now! Now it will probably be too late and we will soon have to take too big steps in the future with too high or even unmanageable costs. First and foremost thanks to our "world politics", which has failed because of its own interests to lead the passengers early and in time in the environmentally friendly direction!

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  • Hey there!
    86, now 87 supporters of the petition, is still a (too) long way to go. I will not be able to get my BioPower 9-3 "properly" drowned.

    Greetings from Bad Salzdetfurth
    Uli

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    • The role of the media

      After all, when I drew it was just 49 supporters. If around 48 hours the number of supporters almost doubles, it could be something ...

      Think of the mathematical and fabled task with the chessboard and the grain of rice (only one in the first field, just two tablespoons [128 grains] on the eighth, but then after 56 more doubling and an angry monarch later ...). We know the result.

      But of course that is optimism of purpose and I share your fear. Yesterday somebody asked me what E85 was. And the links posted by reader Ebasil (a list of French ethanol tanks available in D, a .fr domain, and some German engine talk) are more evidence of journalistic abstinence over alcoholic biofuels than encouraging in a civil petition ...

      Our friend and neighbor thinks and acts sustainably. Already over 1.000 dispensers correspond in relation to the population times even just the factor 100 of what was available in the metropolitan area of ​​Berlin (before the decay) ever to E85 tanks per inhabitant.

      The topic - the example of France and our petition - should actually be in the mainstream media. If that were the case, I would not care about the success of the petition.

      As it is, there is still a bit of hope left. Also yesterday, I had another conversation with someone who was aware of E85 and the French mission statement, but not the petition. He - driver of a brand new German diesel SUV - was immediately enthusiastic and said that he wanted to draw this ...

      If you have contacts, you should also use them. Multipliers (media) would be great cinema.
      Ultimately, however, each signature is counted individually and we can all and we should all do something.
      We are the grains of rice that can drive a monarch (or finance minister) to the point of incandescence.
      And we are many and we are never alone. Even VW customers are with us and the environment ....

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    • If you look at the profile of the initiator (https://www.openpetition.de/user/profile/329150317842), he has tried 2015 / 16 when exiting E85 ever with a petition per E85, who then signed something about 2000 persons.
      Even if there were relatively few advocates back then, it was either because the petition was not advertised enough, or because it attracted little interest, as E85 was probably only interesting to a relatively small number of users throughout the bidding period.
      On the one hand, those who bought a flexible fuel vehicle and, on the other hand, those who mixed their gasoline petrol and E85 in such a way that they ran relatively smoothly.
      The idea of ​​tasting it again because of the climate debate is good, but presumably the response will not be as great as it would have to be in order to be noticed by decision-makers.

      Perhaps there would be another approach to introducing ethanol-based fuel through the potential driving bans. In this article (https://www.focus.de/auto/ratgeber/kosten/e10-statt-e5-bioethanol-sprit-soll-schadstoffe-und-co2-emissionen-deutlich-reduzieren_id_10597901.html) states that E10 should be less harmful to the climate than E5, whereas this investigation (https://www.git-labor.de/forschung/umwelt/emissionen-von-ethanolkraftstoffen-im-strassenverkehr) says the difference between E5 & E10 is marginal, but E85 is much better.
      If higher ethanol levels make the fuel more climate-friendly, but 85% is too high for a broad interest, how about E25?

      This should be possible without major problems in all E10-compatible gasoline engines with intake manifold injection and lambda control, so that the potential user group would have to be much larger. Of course you will not convince those who do not want to drive an E10, but maybe you will get the cities on board, which should have an interest in reducing nitrogen oxide emissions, which should be achieved by a fuel with higher ethanol content.

      For a financial incentive to support but it will probably be nothing without the Federal Ministry of Finance. So, frankly, I do not know where to place such an idea, maybe to get a ball rolling?

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      • PERCENT

        Only the state budget is the key. That's why the petition.
        In principle, an unworthy begging for (purely fiscal) reason, justice and climate protection.

        Mineral oil tax would never or only proportionately on vegetable fuels and admixtures
        may be collected. On E85 so max. 15% instead of 100%. Since in D but the neck is not full
        gets enough, E85 had no chance.Wohlmererkt purely for fiscal reasons ...

        Environmental and climate policy, the matter is clear. And in fiscal terms, F makes us understand how and how it works.
        The mantra, repeated many times in the last few days, that environmental protection does not exist at zero cost, must
        apply to both sides. The state would have to do without mineral oil tax on vegetable fuels.
        He does not want that. If the citizen wants environmental protection, then he should pay for it ...
        Almost a kidnapping and extortionate ransom demand equals when
        a state is so bold between the citizens and a sensible measure.

        Incidentally, so E10 is so unpopular and E25 would be even worse.
        Who pays 100% fuel tax wants to come with every liter of fuel as far as possible.
        Not only the state has a budget, every citizen lives in one, must also count.
        Since ethanol in the tank makes (per 1% share in the mixture by about 0,4% lower calorific value) just
        only makes sense, if the EX per liter is correspondingly cheaper, the bigger the X ...

        So we are citizens nunmal. Be it in F or D. It's up to the governments,
        whether they steer fiscally towards climate protection (F), or as insipid robber knights
        between humans and the environment (D) ...

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  • @ Tom,

    can one not activate the contact to the autobild?

    (Motor-) Journalistically, the subject of ethanol is an attractive and rewarding one.
    The search is conceivably simple, the article written quickly and still good.

    • Little publicity - ergo a real story, real news for 90% or more readers
    • Historical references without end: German monopolist *, Henry Ford **, Brazil *** and racing ****
    • Brand-new and so far almost unknown here: the French model and the German petition
    • environmental, economic and geostrategic relevance *****

    The topic is or should be as hot from a (motor-) journalistic point of view, as hardly any other ...

    * sg potato syrup containing legally prescribed 25% ethanol to become more independent of imports
    ** Ford already postulated that the fuel of the future would come from the fields
    *** Again, it was about economic independence. Interesting is the role of VW in Brazil
    **** Higher octane rating and more power - exciting for any Petrol Head and the purest reading pleasure
    ***** Of all liquid fuels the one that has the least amount of carbon and the highest in hydrogen. Ergo the one who emits the least CO2 and most H2O (environment). Added to this is the possibility of complete CO2 neutrality in the course of production from renewable raw materials (such as agricultural and forestry waste), as well as the immense economic and geopolitical attractiveness of ethanol.

    For (motor) journalists and Petrol Heads but should be particularly attractive that there are thus good arguments for the burner. And of all the burners, which fuels higher octane numbers and is more conductive, would be in many ways the better (environmental and economic policy and geostrategic) than the one who continues to struggle in vain with conventional (fossil and imported) fuels the squaring of its own wheelset hinzubekommen.

    And after all, even Bentley had "recently" a particularly dynamic driving Flexi-Fuel Continental with V8 in the program. All in all, that should be sufficient for one or two articles and a mention of the petition in one of the leading media?

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    • I can activate that. The question would be how much heart and soul you will take on the topic and how big you will get, if at all. I would not promise too much of that.

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      • Except for a better than nothing, I promise nothing of a try.
        Anyone in my opinion is already worthy of all honors.

        This blog does not owe anything to anyone. Quite the opposite is already the only
        Publication of the petition and the repeated addressing of E85 an unerring one
        A sign that you are at the right and the right address here ...

        Please continue. And please continue to be free of any pressure. That is the way it is
        stay well as it has been for a long time. For me the blog belongs to mine
        personal lead media.
        And it will stay that way, no matter how this petition ends ...

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  • A great idea! We (or the climate and the environment and sustainability) need multipliers (as Herbert recently wrote correctly). There are certainly also car-reading readers who are not constantly buying new cars or are at least unsure of which type of drive you should currently decide. For the 1.000 Euro retrofit box would certainly be interesting for their older gasoline engine.

    In addition, a prominent or well-known "social media activist," who points out, would be a good thing. The loyal "Followers" would then follow ... I just do not know anyone that I could ensnare.

    In the next few days, however, I will carefully put together the arguments and send them to a friend who is a member of the (Berlin) non-governmental party, which has always been committed to the environment as its first goal. As far as I know, they are also totally on the climate-damaging battery hype, but here in the north (unlike in BW) they are not part of the car hobby. And the friend is very amenable to rational arguments, and maybe he knows someone in the party that is. Anyway, it's worth a try !!!

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  • Hello Mrs Ebasil, all readers & Tom,

    The Federal Association of the German Bioethanolwirtschaft eV, which you (Ebasil) had linked above, I have just sent an e-mail. Hard to believe, but on their side I find no link to the petition right away ...

    The sluggish start of the petition (as of yesterday 137 signatory) and the aforementioned circumstance suggest that just the federation even has no knowledge of the petition. As hardly anyone else in D ...

    The initiator seems to have started the petition entirely without a communication concept, partners, colleagues and multipliers. But at least he started it. WE HELP HIM. It can become something else! At least it can only get better.

    The lower the level of awareness is, the easier it is to increase it.
    The smaller the number of signers, the easier it is to multiply.
    Likewise the number of supporters and multipliers.

    If you have your own website (preferably related to FFVs - like Skandix, [Ex-] Saab dealer, Volvo dealer etc.) you should and should publish the link to the petition - preferably directly to the petition and not on e85-go, like in this one Items. Presumably, there is the only direct link in Germany so far.
    We can all encourage it to change.

    In any case, I will continue to think about whom and how to approach me. So far:

    • friends, family, colleagues
    • Radio Berlin-Brandenburg (ÖR)
    • Federal Association of the German Bioethanol Industry eV

    PS
    Too bad that the Kieler had the petition not on their side, as the numbers of access through the ceiling went ...

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  • Addendum:

    • Go & Sprint, German management

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